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Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 13:22:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: ".iuROK." <yurock.tengo@gmail.com>
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: .e'o ko pe'u
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By reading threads in "Lojban" (thanks for the links) I gathered the=20
following.
1. Most consider {ko broda} a neutral imperative, or at least support the=
=20
idea.
2. Lojbab confirmed that bare {ko broda} being a command is the intended=20
standard interpretation.
3. Almost everyone consider {.e'o do broda} not being a proposition, but a=
=20
close equivalent of {.e'o ko broda}.

My Thoughts

A rationale for (1) is that there are many different uses for imperatives=
=20
besides commands, and it's easier to specifically mark commands as such=20
(and only when needed) than to mark all other uses. This is also in line=20
with some other aspects of Lojban, where the shortest form leaves details=
=20
unspecified.

(2) probably came from English. In Russian, for example, I feel that bare=
=20
imperatives are appropriate in many cases. When I buy a bread that the=20
seller has to hand me, I say: "=D0=D2=CF=C4=C1=CA=D4=C5 =C8=CC=C5=C2" {ko v=
ecnu lo nanba}. This is=20
an offer of purchase, not a command. Commands in Russian often do not use=
=20
imperatives: "=F3=D4=CF=D1=D4=D8!" {nu sanli}, which may be interpreted as =
"=F0=D2=C9=CB=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=C0=20
=D3=D4=CF=D1=D4=D8!" {mi minde fi lo nu sanli} with "=D0=D2=C9=CB=C1=DA=D9=
=D7=C1=C0" {mi minde} omitted.

If we decide in favor of (1), it will be a change to the language standard,=
=20
and we will need a good way to mark commands.

As for (3), I'd like to have a comprehensive list of words that can change=
=20
the bridi meaning from a default proposition to something else. That would=
=20
be (excluding experimental words):
questions: xu, ma, mo, xo, ji, ge'i, gi'i, gu'i, je'i, pei, fi'a, cu'e,=20
pau?;
imperatives: ko;
attitudinals, discursives, vocatives: .e'o, pe'u?, what else here?
any others kinds?
Also, is {sei mi cpedu do klama ta} a proposition or not?

--=20
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By reading threads in "Lojban" (thanks for the links) I gathered the follow=
ing.<br>1. Most consider {ko broda} a neutral imperative, or at least suppo=
rt the idea.<br>2. Lojbab confirmed that bare {ko broda} being a command is=
 the intended standard interpretation.<br>3. Almost everyone consider {.e'o=
 do broda} not being a proposition, but a close equivalent of {.e'o ko brod=
a}.<br><br>My Thoughts<br><br>A rationale for (1) is that there are many di=
fferent uses for imperatives besides commands, and it's easier to specifica=
lly mark commands as such (and only when needed) than to mark all other use=
s. This is also in line with some other aspects of Lojban, where the shorte=
st form leaves details unspecified.<br><br>(2) probably came from English. =
In Russian, for example, I feel that bare imperatives are appropriate in ma=
ny cases. When I buy a bread that the seller has to hand me, I say: "=D0=D2=
=CF=C4=C1=CA=D4=C5 =C8=CC=C5=C2" {ko vecnu lo nanba}. This is an offer of p=
urchase, not a command. Commands in Russian often do not use imperatives: "=
=F3=D4=CF=D1=D4=D8!" {nu sanli}, which may be interpreted as "=F0=D2=C9=CB=
=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=C0 =D3=D4=CF=D1=D4=D8!" {mi minde fi lo nu sanli} with "=D0=
=D2=C9=CB=C1=DA=D9=D7=C1=C0" {mi minde} omitted.<br><br>If we decide in fav=
or of (1), it will be a change to the language standard, and we will need a=
 good way to mark commands.<br><br>As for (3), I'd like to have a comprehen=
sive list of words that can change the bridi meaning from a default proposi=
tion to something else. That would be (excluding experimental words):<br>qu=
estions: xu, ma, mo, xo, ji, ge'i, gi'i, gu'i, je'i, pei, fi'a, cu'e, pau?;=
<br>imperatives: ko;<br>attitudinals, discursives, vocatives: .e'o, pe'u?, =
what else here?<br>any others kinds?<br>Also, is {sei mi cpedu do klama ta}=
 a proposition or not?<br>

<p></p>

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