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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban sounds and Wikipedia article about
 those sounds
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On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Daeldir <daeldir@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:15:58 -0300
> Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > You may find this useful http://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/lojban. which ha=
s
> > links to all of them.
>
> Thanks for this link.
>
> I'm now working on that (after a while without working on lojban).
> However, is the =93o=94 sound correct here? It points to a close-mid back
> unrounded vowel (no english example on the Wikipedia page), but I'm almos=
t
> certain that it should be a rounded one (like in =93y_aw_n=94, if I belie=
ve
> Wikipedia). I've used that latter sound in the Wave lesson, but it's a tw=
o
> letters change if I'm wrong ;-)
>

I changed it to Mid back rounded vowel in the article, which I'm pretty
sure is what I had originally, someone must have changed it to Close-mid
back unrounded. I also changed "e" to Mid front unrounded. Both rounded and
unrounded are allowed, as there is no specification of roundedness for
vowels, but if you must go one way I'd go with rounded o and unrounded e.
It also doesn't need to be Close-mid. The specification for "o" is "a back
mid vowel" and for "e" it's "a front mid vowel".


Also, about the =93r=94 (I have a long story with the =93r=94 ;-)), it poin=
ts to an
> alveolar tap. I thought it was an alveolar trill! My mistake (if it is on=
e)
> comes from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban#Phonology_and_orthography=
],
> I guess, where an alveolar trill is given for the =93r=94. And it had som=
ething
> to do with the spanish =93r=94, too, but I don't remember where I did rea=
d
> that, and anyway, on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R], we can see that
> both sound are used in spanish (so, it was not precise, but not false to =
do
> that kind of comparison). Well, I would like to know what is the =93best=
=94
> sound (as the two are correct, thank to lojban laxism about sounds
> differentiation). First, to point it as an example, second, to correct an=
y
> =93prefered way=94 that I could have put in the french translation (as th=
e
> french =93r=94 is really different from both sounds, I spent some time on=
 it).
>

Many are allowed, but the alveolar tap is probably the most common across
languages, and so I think it's the one that should be preferred.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Daeldir <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:daeldir@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">daeldir@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex"><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:1=
5:58 -0300<br>

Jorge Llamb=EDas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gma=
il.com</a>&gt; wrote:<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">=A0</span></div></=
div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; You may find this useful <a href=3D"http://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/lojb=
an" target=3D"_blank">http://jbo.wikipedia.org/wiki/lojban</a>. which has<b=
r>
&gt; links to all of them.<br>
<br>
</div></div>Thanks for this link.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m now working on that (after a while without working on lojban). Howe=
ver, is the =93o=94 sound correct here? It points to a close-mid back unrou=
nded vowel (no english example on the Wikipedia page), but I&#39;m almost c=
ertain that it should be a rounded one (like in =93y_aw_n=94, if I believe =
Wikipedia). I&#39;ve used that latter sound in the Wave lesson, but it&#39;=
s a two letters change if I&#39;m wrong ;-)<br>
</blockquote><div style><dd style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);font-size:medium"><br></dd></div><div style>I changed it to Mid back roun=
ded vowel in the article, which I&#39;m pretty sure is what I had originall=
y, someone must have changed it to Close-mid back unrounded. I also changed=
 &quot;e&quot; to Mid front unrounded. Both rounded and unrounded are allow=
ed, as there is no specification of roundedness for vowels, but if you must=
 go one way I&#39;d go with rounded o and unrounded e. It also doesn&#39;t =
need to be Close-mid. The specification for &quot;o&quot; is &quot;a back m=
id vowel&quot; and for &quot;e&quot; it&#39;s &quot;a front mid vowel&quot;=
.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:=
rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Also, about the =
=93r=94 (I have a long story with the =93r=94 ;-)), it points to an alveola=
r tap. I thought it was an alveolar trill! My mistake (if it is one) comes =
from [<a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban#Phonology_and_orthogra=
phy" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban#Phonology_and_or=
thography</a>], I guess, where an alveolar trill is given for the =93r=94. =
And it had something to do with the spanish =93r=94, too, but I don&#39;t r=
emember where I did read that, and anyway, on [<a href=3D"http://en.wikiped=
ia.org/wiki/R" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R</a>], we ca=
n see that both sound are used in spanish (so, it was not precise, but not =
false to do that kind of comparison). Well, I would like to know what is th=
e =93best=94 sound (as the two are correct, thank to lojban laxism about so=
unds differentiation). First, to point it as an example, second, to correct=
 any =93prefered way=94 that I could have put in the french translation (as=
 the french =93r=94 is really different from both sounds, I spent some time=
 on it).<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Many are allowed, but the alveolar t=
ap is probably the most common across languages, and so I think it&#39;s th=
e one that should be preferred.</div><div style><br></div><div style>mu&#39=
;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div>
<div style>=A0</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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