Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 10:42:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: tjerk <tjschrod@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] questions about lojban
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I'm interested in lojban. I hope to state complicated meanings very clearly 
using lojban,
and without the need for further clarifications as is common in natural 
languages.

A son of mine has dyslexia, and I read that languages in which each letter 
can only
be pronounced in one way is much easier for dyslectics to read. Sounds very 
plausible.
Finnish could help then. But lojban also. Further, language is really his 
thing. He began
to speak very young and he makes quite complicated grammatical 
constructions. And generally
knows the effect on meaning changing places of words have. lojban could 
help him to
transfer his ability in spoken language to written language. And I hope we 
can have some
fun together learning it.

So far for my motivation. I have some questions and remarks about lojban.

1. 
'mi' in lojban means I and also we. So, here lojban is more ambiguous than 
english. But
lojban is supposed to be less ambiguous than english. Lojban has another 3 
words for we,
meaning: me and you, you and others, me and others and not you. So 'mi' 
could have been
reserved for I without losing expressiveness.
I suppose this thing of lojban is because lojban leaves number open by 
default. 'le karci'
means the car or the cars. Does 'le pa karci' mean the car and only that, 
so not the cars?
If so, does 'pa mi' mean I and not we?
Why is there no article in lojban that means exactly one of something?

2.
Tense is also open by default in lojban. So 'mi klama le zarci' can mean I 
go to the market,
and it can mean I went to the market, and it can mean I will go the market. 
So this is again
more ambiguous than english. Of course there are words to specify the time, 
but why is
present tense not the default? Minimizing guessing using context is one of 
the main goals of
lojban, not?

3.
In lojban the predicate(selbri) can be put everywhere in a sentence, except 
at the best
place, the begin. That is the normal place for a function. And a selbri is 
a kind of
function. 'fa' has to be used to be able to put the selbri at the begin: 
klama fa mi le
zarci. Maybe another cmavo also works. 
Where did it go wrong? Trying to resemble the SVO structure of english?

4.
The main effect the place structure grammar of lojban seems to have is 
elimination of
prepositions. I have my doubts about this. For example, compare 'I go to 
the market' and 'I
talk to you'. Very different things are happening, but there is also 
similarity. There is
a destination in both, and that is why to is used in both cases.
In the place structure grammar of lojban a place has no meaning on its own 
(although 1st
place is maybe always the subject). If a predicate has an argument for some 
sort of
destination you have to look up its place for the predicate, and also 
remember that place.
Remembering a preposition for notating destination for each predicate seems 
simpler. 

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I'm interested in lojban. I hope to state complicated meanings very clearly=
 using lojban,<br>and without the need for further clarifications as is com=
mon in natural languages.<br><br>A son of mine has dyslexia, and I read tha=
t languages in which each letter can only<br>be pronounced in one way is mu=
ch easier for dyslectics to read. Sounds very plausible.<br>Finnish could h=
elp then. But lojban also. Further, language is really his thing. He began<=
br>to speak very young and he makes quite complicated grammatical construct=
ions. And generally<br>knows the effect on meaning changing places of words=
 have. lojban could help him to<br>transfer his ability in spoken language =
to written language. And I hope we can have some<br>fun together learning i=
t.<br><br>So far for my motivation. I have some questions and remarks about=
 lojban.<br><br>1. <br>'mi' in lojban means I and also we. So, here lojban =
is more ambiguous than english. But<br>lojban is supposed to be less ambigu=
ous than english. Lojban has another 3 words for we,<br>meaning: me and you=
, you and others, me and others and not you. So 'mi' could have been<br>res=
erved for I without losing expressiveness.<br>I suppose this thing of lojba=
n is because lojban leaves number open by default. 'le karci'<br>means the =
car or the cars. Does 'le pa karci' mean the car and only that, so not the =
cars?<br>If so, does 'pa mi' mean I and not we?<br>Why is there no article =
in lojban that means exactly one of something?<br><br>2.<br>Tense is also o=
pen by default in lojban. So 'mi klama le zarci' can mean I go to the marke=
t,<br>and it can mean I went to the market, and it can mean I will go the m=
arket. So this is again<br>more ambiguous than english. Of course there are=
 words to specify the time, but why is<br>present tense not the default? Mi=
nimizing guessing using context is one of the main goals of<br>lojban, not?=
<br><br>3.<br>In lojban the predicate(selbri) can be put everywhere in a se=
ntence, except at the best<br>place, the begin. That is the normal place fo=
r a function. And a selbri is a kind of<br>function. 'fa' has to be used to=
 be able to put the selbri at the begin: klama fa mi le<br>zarci. Maybe ano=
ther cmavo also works. <br>Where did it go wrong? Trying to resemble the SV=
O structure of english?<br><br>4.<br>The main effect the place structure gr=
ammar of lojban seems to have is elimination of<br>prepositions. I have my =
doubts about this. For example, compare 'I go to the market' and 'I<br>talk=
 to you'. Very different things are happening, but there is also similarity=
. There is<br>a destination in both, and that is why to is used in both cas=
es.<br>In the place structure grammar of lojban a place has no meaning on i=
ts own (although 1st<br>place is maybe always the subject). If a predicate =
has an argument for some sort of<br>destination you have to look up its pla=
ce for the predicate, and also remember that place.<br><div>Remembering a p=
reposition for notating destination for each predicate seems simpler. <br><=
/div><div><br></div>

<p></p>

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