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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Tanru-internal connectives, place structure,  non-sense
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On 11.11.2013 18:04, Michael Turniansky wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 9:21 AM, selpa'i <m3o@plasmatix.com> wrote:
>> If you say it has no x2, then I assume you would say that in:
>>
>> =A0 =A0mi klama je sutra lo tricu
>>
>> {lo tricu} actually fills klama3 and it fills neither klama2 nor=20
>> sutra2. How can this be practically used? In which case it would mean:
>
> =A0 No, I would not say that. =A0When I said " 'sutra je jipci' doesn't
> have an x2," I wasn't generalizing to _all_ broda JA brode. =A0If you
> SPECIFY something in that spot, as in your sentence, you ARE saying
> the same as "mi klama gi'e sutra vau lo tricu" and you darn well
> better be using something that can fit both of the underlying x2
> places (Which obviously "lo tricu" cannot) . =A0

But there is something in that place either way. It's either something=20
explicit, or it's {zo'e}.

> What I was asserting was
> that since the set of all things that are both se sutra and se jipci
> is an empty set (as far as I can reasonably ascertain), it /de facto/
> has no x2 place, not that it has no x2 place by nature of the
> construction.

Okay. In other words, there is an x2, but nothing can sensibly fill it.=20
The moment you use it, the sentence becomes nonsense.

{.i sutra je jipci} is the same as {.i zo'e sutra je jipci zo'e}. It=20
claims that something fills that x2.

> =A0 Therefore as long as your sentence doesn't try to put something
> into that place, there is no problem with asserting the sentence "mi
> sutra je jipci" is meaningful (I guess, to put it another way, I am
> asserting that an implicit "zo'e" (but probably not, pe'i, an=20
> explicit
> "zo'e") in fact doesn't have to be something that can really exist.

A {zo'e} always has some value that makes the bridi true. But whatever=20
the {zo'e} in {sutra je jipci}'s x2 is, it cannot make the bridi true=20
(because no such value exists), so the whole predicate is faulty.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

--=20
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