Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:34:18 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] How to construct certain sentences
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I've been trying to teach myself Lojban lately by using Anki for vocabulary 
and by writing for the Lojban Wikipedia to practice writing in the 
language. However, there are a few things I'm having trouble figuring out 
how to say in Lojban.

I've been translating {Nazi soldiers} as {lo natziz. zei sonci}. What I 
probably want is to use a cmene as a tanru unit, but the definition of 
{zei} says that it is a lujvo glue. In addition, using {lo} before a cmene 
is probably not allowed so I started using {la}, but it seems like {lo} 
would make more sense, because I'm talking about those who are Nazi 
soldiers, not those named "Nazi soldiers". (I've been writing about a book 
which is about a family that helps a Jewish family escape from Denmark 
during World War II, which is why I am making reference to Nazis.)

How do I allow an "and" construction with three arguments to be in a 
relative clause or abstraction? I wrote {ni'o la pityr.nilsen. noi ge nanmu 
gi ge gunka fi lonu sidju la'o gy. Danish Resistance gy. kei gi bavyspe la 
lis. ku'o vitke lo lanzu be la .anmyris. je cusku lonu cfari fa lonu lo 
dotco cu ga'orga'i ro lo xebro sorcu} which the "and" construction is of 
the form {ge ... gi ge ... gi ...}. It seems like it would be easier to be 
able to say {A & B & C} instead of {A & (B & C)} but the parser I was using 
didn't accept {ge ... gi ... gi ...}.

How do I say "later that night"? I tried {bazi lo nitce} but I think that 
might mean "a little bit of time after the night".

I was under the impression that I could use {ca/pu/ba} with sumti as well 
as selbri. However, the grammar checker that I have doesn't seem to accept 
{lo ca ... } constructions. I tried {.i la mestyr.jo'ansen. jarco fi lo 
natziz. zei sarcu fe lo kacma pixra be lo ca lonu cifnu kei ci tixnu be'o 
noi ge lo cmene cu se ciska fi ke'a gi jarco lodu'u lo kerfa pe la lises. 
simsa lo kerfa pe la .elen. ca lonu la lises. cifnu} but that is 
complicated and could contain other errors, so I tried a simpler one {lo ca 
lo cifnu ku tixnu cu kansa} and it still rejected it. I was trying to 
translate "Mr. Johanses showed the Nazi soldiers the picture of his three 
daughters while they were infants which the names are written on them and 
they show that Lise's hair was similar to Elen's hair when Lise was an 
infant." It appears that the parser will accept {lo ca sumti} when {ca} 
doesn't have a separate sumti attached to it. However, I don't know how to 
translate "the daughters when they were infants" in a way that the parser 
will accept.

How do I translate "someday"? I simply wrote {bazuku} which means "far in 
the future".

In addition to several sentence contructions that I had trouble with, I 
also could not translate several words, like "research", "risk", "star" 
(the shape). I have found that the introductory section of 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_the_Stars is very difficult for me to 
translate.


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<div dir=3D"ltr">I've been trying to teach myself Lojban lately by using An=
ki for vocabulary and by writing for the Lojban Wikipedia to practice writi=
ng in the language. However, there are a few things I'm having trouble figu=
ring out how to say in Lojban.<br><br>I've been translating {Nazi soldiers}=
 as {lo natziz. zei sonci}. What I probably want is to use a cmene as a tan=
ru unit, but the definition of {zei} says that it is a lujvo glue. In addit=
ion, using {lo} before a cmene is probably not allowed so I started using {=
la}, but it seems like {lo} would make more sense, because I'm talking abou=
t those who are Nazi soldiers, not those named "Nazi soldiers". (I've been =
writing about a book which is about a family that helps a Jewish family esc=
ape from Denmark during World War II, which is why I am making reference to=
 Nazis.)<br><br>How do I allow an "and" construction with three arguments t=
o be in a relative clause or abstraction? I wrote {ni'o la pityr.nilsen. no=
i ge nanmu gi ge gunka fi lonu sidju la'o gy. Danish Resistance gy. kei gi =
bavyspe la lis. ku'o vitke lo lanzu be la .anmyris. je cusku lonu cfari fa =
lonu lo dotco cu ga'orga'i ro lo xebro sorcu} which the "and" construction =
is of the form {ge ... gi ge ... gi ...}. It seems like it would be easier =
to be able to say {A &amp; B &amp; C} instead of {A &amp; (B &amp; C)} but =
the parser I was using didn't accept {ge ... gi ... gi ...}.<br><br>How do =
I say "later that night"? I tried {bazi lo nitce} but I think that might me=
an "a little bit of time after the night".<br><br>I was under the impressio=
n that I could use {ca/pu/ba} with sumti as well as selbri. However, the gr=
ammar checker that I have doesn't seem to accept {lo ca ... } constructions=
. I tried {.i la mestyr.jo'ansen. jarco fi lo natziz. zei sarcu fe lo kacma=
 pixra be lo ca lonu cifnu kei ci tixnu be'o noi ge lo cmene cu se ciska fi=
 ke'a gi jarco lodu'u lo kerfa pe la lises. simsa lo kerfa pe la .elen. ca =
lonu la lises. cifnu} but that is complicated and could contain other error=
s, so I tried a simpler one {lo ca lo cifnu ku tixnu cu kansa} and it still=
 rejected it. I was trying to translate "Mr. Johanses showed the Nazi soldi=
ers the picture of his three daughters while they were infants which the na=
mes are written on them and they show that Lise's hair was similar to Elen'=
s hair when Lise was an infant." It appears that the parser will accept {lo=
 ca sumti} when {ca} doesn't have a separate sumti attached to it. However,=
 I don't know how to translate "the daughters when they were infants" in a =
way that the parser will accept.<br><br>How do I translate "someday"? I sim=
ply wrote {bazuku} which means "far in the future".<br><br>In addition to s=
everal sentence contructions that I had trouble with, I also could not tran=
slate several words, like "research", "risk", "star" (the shape). I have fo=
und that the introductory section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_t=
he_Stars is very difficult for me to translate.<br><br><br></div>

<p></p>

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