Received: from mail-qa0-f56.google.com ([209.85.216.56]:45679) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VciIf-0005zj-HK; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 14:00:11 -0700 Received: by mail-qa0-f56.google.com with SMTP id j7sf113286qaq.1 for ; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=36iWSeSgklhZRTV5oJtE6WtkanWJ0UvxqlzuKNEw5c0=; b=CNDiLxOHcQQ48ZeMB9VphPWEYUr4KOv7219PjmJaNAgzyscK3QAzBZgwxNrRw3gSkq zUHFUqhJoyplmhsp2kR8Askx9isS1ci5HjAbaJbDhkAMqP8bEqbKiH5OPrM4JVutXtLl tycx8cE5GS+XTQ1GnCm/iYFoqDm9MBzYqAgXjDo7hRvqHHY2cFwumeP/tGREEFtql/qx uH6kmW/tVGs+zRtBlVonlpw5NdXgLfRX74WGkEtCCcvqZH7IR2cHkabKAkt8J1qvd+bn /9TrnlqY7oqa9bikiz+h3Pj9MAM7xhAZLTE7boE6obG0dgiEAlPY4/K8Iq7gu4bNVvqI DCXQ== X-Received: by 10.50.66.161 with SMTP id g1mr143718igt.5.1383425998472; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.11.105 with SMTP id p9ls940193igb.40.canary; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.102.69 with SMTP id fm5mr3043394pab.24.1383425996092; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x234.google.com (mail-vc0-x234.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c03::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f7si1648180vdi.3.2013.11.02.13.59.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c03::234; Received: by mail-vc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id lc6so3668629vcb.25 for ; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.165.131 with SMTP id yy3mr4872542vdb.25.1383425995945; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 13:59:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.58.188.111 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Nov 2013 13:59:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Luke Bergen Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 16:59:35 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] multiple connectives To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2c54a0fbca104ea37f76c X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 9200 --001a11c2c54a0fbca104ea37f76c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think I may have been mis-using "ji'a" for a long time now. What exactly does "ji'a" mean such that it conveys what we're shooting for here? The gloss for it "additionally" made me think it was used for things like "I think this movie is really good. Additionally (ji'a) it looks really nice." => "mi pensi lo du'u lo skina ku xamgu .i ji'a bo melbi" On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > Connectives and tags are fundamentally different things, which explains > why when we want to use a tag as a connective, we have to coerce it with > the CONNECTIVE TAG BO formulation (e.g. .i TAG bo, je TAG bo, .e TAG bo, > etc.). Even if we coerced {ca} into a connective, in your example, we > wouldn't be much further ahead since we can't connect connectives. (A bit > too meta.) We need to find a different approach. > > Let's examine the meaning of what you want to say: "even" in this case is > carrying a meaning of "one wouldn't expect the main event to occur when the > tagged event does, but it does!" so to remark on this, let's just use > {ji'a}. {.i vudypai ca lo ji'a sai nu lo tsani ca'o farlu}. > > .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > > > On 2 November 2013 13:50, Luke Bergen wrote: > >> I don't know if this is more suitable to the beginner list of the main >> list, but since it's a question, I figure it may be useful to some new >> folks. >> >> Is it possible (and if so, how) to have multiple tags/connectors? >> >> Let me explain what I mean. >> >> On the new jboselkei (thanks for getting it back up again qx4096), I'm >> trying to translate this: >> "Let justice be done even as heaven falls." >> >> And in trying to get the flavor of the "even" part of the phrase, I think >> it's a kind of mixture of "ca" and ".u". But the form "ko'a broda ko'e ca >> .u ko'i" is not valid. It's possible to mix tags like "pu ca" or "ca bai", >> but I guess logical connectives are different? >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --001a11c2c54a0fbca104ea37f76c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think I may have been mis-using "ji'a" for= a long time now. =A0What exactly does "ji'a" mean such that = it conveys what we're shooting for here? =A0The gloss for it "addi= tionally" made me think it was used for things like "I think this= movie is really good. Additionally (ji'a) it looks really nice." = =A0=3D> "mi pensi lo du'u lo skina ku xamgu .i ji'a bo melb= i"


On Sat, Nov 2= , 2013 at 4:47 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wro= te:
Connectives and tags a= re fundamentally different things, which explains why when we want to use a= tag as a connective, we have to coerce it with the CONNECTIVE TAG BO formu= lation (e.g. .i TAG bo, je TAG bo, .e TAG bo, etc.). Even if we coerced {ca= } into a connective, in your example, we wouldn't be much further ahead= since we can't connect connectives. (A bit too meta.) We need to find = a different approach.

Let's examine the meaning of what you want to say: "even= " in this case is carrying a meaning of "one wouldn't expect = the main event to occur when the tagged event does, but it does!" so t= o remark on this, let's just use {ji'a}. {.i vudypai ca lo ji'a= sai nu lo tsani ca'o farlu}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

<= br>
On 2 November 2013 13:= 50, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know if this is more suitable to the beginner list of = the main list, but since it's a question, I figure it may be useful to = some new folks.

Is it possible (and if so, how) to have multiple tags/connec= tors?

Let me explain what I mean.

On= the new jboselkei (thanks for getting it back up again qx4096), I'm tr= ying to translate this:
"Let justice be done even as heaven = falls."

And in trying to get the flavor of the "even= " part of the phrase, I think it's a kind of mixture of "ca&q= uot; and ".u". =A0But the form "ko'a broda ko'e ca .= u ko'i" is not valid. =A0It's possible to mix tags like "= pu ca" or "ca bai", but I guess logical connectives are diff= erent?

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