Received: from mail-ve0-f189.google.com ([209.85.128.189]:35343) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WKiSL-0004S1-7x for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:04:07 -0800 Received: by mail-ve0-f189.google.com with SMTP id jx11sf1223351veb.16 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=44toudSXWRzPnjaQtaHIQW+175odaRQlqDQAN5VmDOI=; b=Bv/32ooV2us26HhRFS9sb56goQJT3BGEDBLwNIfwUed5qMEk+/sQm1WG0FX8k2mOWs RqJX7aoZUajToqY57C036Sa9Z7J30T35HUz/X43t2QWnERLeuPgG0FAY4XEOxcnPgX5I Bz0YZA0Kx7Bdeqc9RfAgP3OqqExtT2Vrx3XyrN6JlqaS9c4bKSFQd4yfeItsZ0jqoG0N S/cbm3Z6eQFV8VVFg1zNnoeoYinKCOgIPNcXy2TEsUZjrfNHuCTZNbjMcEh48ErQObO2 tSv/3YnlTQd5cRqYSU3zdVVFXdiR9w3ZVE08l/XOjkUUoECLmhbDs5okmfxhL0oO58Lo Sxuw== X-Received: by 10.140.95.144 with SMTP id i16mr473077qge.1.1393913030965; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.22.139 with SMTP id 11ls2424896qgn.84.gmail; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.58.219.3 with SMTP id pk3mr10489633vec.16.1393913030197; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x241.google.com (mail-ie0-x241.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ie13si3738085igb.1.2014.03.03.22.03.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241; Received: by mail-ie0-f193.google.com with SMTP id rl12so3159900iec.8 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.25.67 with SMTP id a3mr1431188igg.28.1393913029998; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 22:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.27.74 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 22:03:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8dcf7872-97ed-4e7d-bab8-fd12d7d8f02d@googlegroups.com> <1ab7944daac7f74b25beda8df859f9be@plasmatix.com> <1bdcd4bf-b5ba-49ee-b3de-fae76fe26cff@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 03:03:49 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say "I have (only) one brother"? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felipe_Gon=E7alves_Assis?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: felipeg.assis@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of felipeg.assis@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=felipeg.assis@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd74a2c0048c304f3c1abcf X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 7766 --047d7bd74a2c0048c304f3c1abcf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 4 March 2014 02:30, MystyrNile a wrote: > I understand now that that is how it works, but if "ro" and "pa" combine > with other members of PA differently, then how can they be considered > members of the same selma'o? > I didn't follow the original thread, but your reasoning is perfectly valid. The formal grammar currently specifies only that any succession of PAs basically behaves as a single one; it gives no internal structure to it. People have been developing ideas on how to interpret various sequences of numerals, inexact quantifiers and different species of PAs, effectively developing some informal syntax for numbers on the way. I think there was once a discussion on a grammar for numbers or something, but I didn't follow it. mu'o mi'e .asiz. > > On Thursday, July 25, 2013 6:17:27 PM UTC-4, selpa'i wrote: >> >> On 25.07.2013 23:49, ianek wrote: >> > On Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:28:13 PM UTC+2, selpa'i wrote: >> >> If you mean "only" as in "I feel lack" or as in "It's a small number >> >> that I am unhappy about", you could try: {so'u pa ui nai} - "few and >> >> one >> >> :( " >> > >> > Maybe offtopic, but I'm not sure {so'u pa} does that. I would >> > understand that as "few tens and 1", ie. 11, 21 or 31. >> >> You can combine exact and inexact (indefinite) numbers, which is like >> joining them with {.e}. >> >> E.g. >> >> lo pendo be mi cu se panzi so'i mu nixli >> lo pendo be mi cu se panzi vei so'i .e mu nixli >> "A friend of mine is the parent of many five girls." >> "A friend of mine is the parent of five (which is a lot) girls." >> >> Or: >> >> ro ci djuno cu morsi >> "All three knowers are dead." >> >> There are some other nice things that can be done with joint numbers, >> like {su'o re su'e mu mlatu} "at least 2 and at most 5 cats", but this >> might lead us too far off. If it gets too technical, then the main list >> is more appropriate. >> >> mu'o mi'e la selpa'i >> >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. --047d7bd74a2c0048c304f3c1abcf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On 4 March 2014 02:30, MystyrNile a <mystyrnile@gmail.com= > wrote:
I understand now that that = is how it works, but if "ro" and "pa" combine with othe= r members of PA differently, then how can they be considered members of the= same selma'o?

I didn't follow the original thr= ead, but your reasoning is perfectly valid. The formal grammar currently sp= ecifies only that any succession of PAs basically behaves as a single one; = it gives no internal structure to it. People have been developing ideas on = how to interpret various sequences of numerals, inexact quantifiers and dif= ferent species of PAs, effectively developing some informal syntax for numb= ers on the way.

I think there was once a discussion on a grammar for numbers= or something, but I didn't follow it.

mu'o
mi= 'e .asiz.
=A0

On Thursday, July 25, 2013 6:17:27 PM UTC-4, selpa'= ;i wrote:
On 25.07.2013 23:49, ian= ek wrote:
> On Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:28:13 PM UTC+2, selpa'i wrote:
>> If you mean "only" as in "I feel lack" or = as in "It's a small number
>> that I am unhappy about", you could try: {so'u pa ui = nai} - "few and=20
>> one
>> :( "
>
> Maybe offtopic, but I'm not sure {so'u pa} does that. I wo= uld
> understand that as "few tens and 1", ie. 11, 21 or 31.

You can combine exact and inexact (indefinite) numbers, which is like= =20
joining them with {.e}.

E.g.

=A0 =A0 =A0 lo pendo be mi cu se panzi so'i mu nixli
=A0 =A0 =A0 lo pendo be mi cu se panzi vei so'i .e mu nixli
=A0 =A0 =A0 "A friend of mine is the parent of many five girls.&qu= ot;
=A0 =A0 =A0 "A friend of mine is the parent of five (which is a lo= t) girls."

Or:

=A0 =A0 =A0 ro ci djuno cu morsi
=A0 =A0 =A0 "All three knowers are dead."

There are some other nice things that can be done with joint numbers,= =20
like {su'o re su'e mu mlatu} "at least 2 and at most 5 cat= s", but this=20
might lead us too far off. If it gets too technical, then the main list= =20
is more appropriate.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i




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