Received: from mail-ve0-f189.google.com ([209.85.128.189]:41524) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WLlHs-0002Ay-Aq for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:35 -0800 Received: by mail-ve0-f189.google.com with SMTP id jx11sf730556veb.6 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=gTQqA/v2kznxzmNQJwIZbIr7cmXbPIe7RlBnhpBlnDk=; b=GHIrvxFmMFGbbyq01cOMicsVAn4sEY3pydLuKXOGBrCDctDZWlL6PyZW7sB2lV+QPc nHL05U6lHgPe/tQ6N2uISEBcYp7dO9/cb3aw2vZIPhPkKJ0Md3DZJklQh/MAaVUOdZuL knIJ6jqbm/4++ZjXLFpn5flTm0XmbiUSS8iMFPI0eqMokzIt2+uJIyCF6CPLcRE/dNta aBe3kqLPN0V3Huplxh9dBYBSl1sxhnmr3yEK8Pd7zIRSftHtmIykWlpV/Za3di748vpr 43f+7uvA+msuUimRecYqR+sDnHZBz5rLugf18WC2Qx3pGsi+LNKsDUEQVHwItLpWormL J7uQ== X-Received: by 10.182.47.161 with SMTP id e1mr3597obn.24.1394162242012; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:22 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.24.132 with SMTP id u4ls343206obf.40.gmail; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:20 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.29.196 with SMTP id m4mr5640069obh.26.1394162240842; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x235.google.com (mail-ve0-x235.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ys4si1711300vdc.2.2014.03.06.19.17.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235; Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id oy12so3677582veb.12 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:20 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.220.136.6 with SMTP id p6mr8084795vct.9.1394162240729; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:17:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.144.9 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 19:17:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8dcf7872-97ed-4e7d-bab8-fd12d7d8f02d@googlegroups.com> <1ab7944daac7f74b25beda8df859f9be@plasmatix.com> <1bdcd4bf-b5ba-49ee-b3de-fae76fe26cff@googlegroups.com> From: Jacob Errington Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 22:17:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] How to say "I have (only) one brother"? To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134a13a1e393c04f3fbb1b3 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 4566 --001a1134a13a1e393c04f3fbb1b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 4 March 2014 00:30, MystyrNile a wrote: > I understand now that that is how it works, but if "ro" and "pa" combine > with other members of PA differently, then how can they be considered > members of the same selma'o? > > They behave the same way grammatically, but their interpretation, which is a semantic feature not governed directly by the grammar, depends on the exact words used. The CLL describes these interpretations: Another possibility is that of combining definite and indefinite numbers into a single number. This usage implies that the two kinds of numbers have the same value in the given context: 8.18) mi viska le rore gerku I saw the all-of/two dogs. I saw both dogs. 8.19) mi speni so'ici prenu I am-married-to many/three persons. I am married to three persons (which is "many" in the circumstances). (Chapter 18, section 8, at the bottom.) Some lojbanists extend these interpretations in many different directions, but those usages are (sadly) nonstandard. The general rule that we can discern from this CLL excerpt is that when an exact number and an inexact number are sequenced, then the result is as if these numbers were logically connected with {.e}. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a1134a13a1e393c04f3fbb1b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 4 March 2014 00:30, MystyrNile a <= mystyrnile@gmail.= com> wrote:
I understand now that that is how it works, but if "r= o" and "pa" combine with other members of PA differently, th= en how can they be considered members of the same selma'o?


They behave the same= way grammatically, but their interpretation, which is a semantic feature n= ot governed directly by the grammar, depends on the exact words used. The C= LL describes these interpretations:

Another possibility is that of combining definite and indefinite=20 numbers into a single number. This usage implies that the two kinds of=20 numbers have the same value in the given context:

8.18)  mi viska le rore gerku
       I saw the all-of/two dogs.
       I saw both dogs.

8.19)  mi speni so'ici prenu
       I am-married-to many/three persons.
       I am married to three persons (which is “many” in the ci=
rcumstances).

(Chapter 18, section 8, at the bottom.)

Some lojbanists extend these interpretations in many different direct= ions, but those usages are (sadly) nonstandard. The general rule that we ca= n discern from this CLL excerpt is that when an exact number and an inexact= number are sequenced, then the result is as if these numbers were logicall= y connected with {.e}.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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