Received: from mail-la0-f57.google.com ([209.85.215.57]:48860) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WmklO-0005HA-TF for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:48 -0700 Received: by mail-la0-f57.google.com with SMTP id hr17sf68154lab.22 for ; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=B+pjRFyzW+ircCHuELkhOQm+ZjP31f5gmxjFAhCaU/0=; b=hnUmQyUbB9/WGd3mCL0S229TIDsM9Z11pv3qIzzJ0LkY1dXLLc8LXqtOgA4wr0AT4S +jfdHvn+wlNQJ0O7MiOM4kSabqBymcilYj7tvsRitQJbCHD06aMxsSclkITqyE7Rt8ya jqldMU4PKHjYRagMP1ppl1zp6gV7yl670MVD5z9AgneONUpTyMleo6koJ/SjiQJOWKF6 yJHkYn1oMJNObooKEmyeV+N4MmtnP56Wy6ck3uXVdMguwt95xJpvCTm7S356sXUZlZDv J/VFPNyePURi5hCVprfKvQK85HpxHK63GFDwWhEg7U0qzhxx7EF6NqXWjMTWw+WE2qwq ouMg== X-Received: by 10.152.23.165 with SMTP id n5mr143405laf.5.1400595083189; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:23 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.242.130 with SMTP id wq2ls48885lac.85.gmail; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.13.36 with SMTP id e4mr1041472lbc.11.1400595082191; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bb2si407531wib.1.2014.05.20.07.11.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::235; Received: by mail-wi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id n15so1023012wiw.14 for ; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.82.9 with SMTP id e9mr37254450wjy.45.1400595081997; Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.102] ([37.252.204.105]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id l2sm15017007wix.13.2014.05.20.07.11.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 May 2014 07:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <537B626B.904@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 16:10:51 +0200 From: Ilmen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] A bunch of mysterious gismu References: In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000201050902090404050507" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 9100 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000201050902090404050507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 20/05/2014, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > I tried to fill all places of all 1342 gismu with something=20 > reasonable. Here are the gismu that are most problematic for me. > > What do I want? To show at least one usable example of **each** place=20 > in these gismu: > > 1. cmacix1 is a mathematics of type/describing x2. > 1. What is "type"? Please don't cheat with {caltaicmaci} in > cmaci1. Is cmaci1 an abstraction? > 2. gradux1 [magnitude] is a unit/degree of/on scale/reference > standard x2 (si'o) measuring property x3. > As far as I can tell, {gradu} is {ckilu} with one more tersu'i, which is=20 a unit on the scale gradu-2/ckilu-1. I don't know what can fill graku-2=20 and ckilu-1, however. Here is how I would use {gradu}: { la .meter. cu gradu fi lo ka sepli } (If we agree that {sepli} is the=20 spatial counterpart of {te temci}.) {.i lo ni lo jubme cu clani cu pelji li re la .meter. } / { .i li re=20 parbi lo ni lo jubme cu clani ku la .meter. } > 1. gunrox1 rolls/trundles on/against surface x2 rotating on axis/axle > x3; x1 is a roller. > 2. junlax1 is clock/watch/timer measuring time units x2 to precision > x3 with timing mechanism/method x4. > 3. juntax1 is the weight of object x2 in [gravitational or other > force] field x3. > It seems {junta} is actually {x1 is the gravitational force between x2=20 and x3}, although this needs confirmation. If so, you could probably say: { li ci parbi lo junta be lo jubme (bei la terdi) lo junta be lo=20 stizu (bei la terdi) } > 1. > > > 2. lanxex1 is in balance/equilibrium under forces x2 (mass). > 1. Can lanxe1 be an abstraction? Can lanxe1 be an object? > 3. lidnex1 precedes/leads x2 in sequence x3; x1 is > former/preceding/previous; x2 is latter/following. > 1. Can lidne1 be an abstraction? Can lidne1 be an object? The > same question for lidne2 > { me'o .ibu me'o ny lidne zo lidne } =E2=80=94 =C2=AB The letter "i" preced= es the=20 letter "n" in the word "lidne". =C2=BB { mi do lidne zo'e noi porsi lo ka sutmau ku lo'i bajra } =E2=80=94 =C2=AB = I precede=20 you in the sequence made from the set of the runners, ordered by speed. =C2= =BB (Please correct me if my use of porsi-2 is wrong.) And, yes, {lidne}'s x1 and x2 can contain an abstraction, because=20 abstraction sequences are possible. > 1. pinfux1 is a prisoner/captive of x2, restrained/held/confined by > means/force x3. > pe'i You should have added {farna} to your list. :) mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --------------000201050902090404050507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 20/05/2014, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
I tried to fill all places of all 1342 gismu with something reasonable. Here are the gismu that are most problematic for me.

What do I want? To show at least one usable example of *eac= h* place in these gismu:

  1. cmaci x1 is a mathematics of type/describing x2.
    1. What is "type"? Please don't cheat with {caltaicmaci} in cmaci1. Is cmaci1 an abstraction?
  2. gradu x1 [magnitude] is a unit/degree of/on scale/reference standard x2 (si'o) measuring property x3.
As far as I can tell, {gradu} is {ckilu} with one more tersu'i, which is a unit on the scale gradu-2/ckilu-1. I don't know what can fill graku-2 and ckilu-1, however.

Here is how I would use {gradu}:

{ la .meter. cu gradu fi lo ka sepli }=C2=A0 (If we agree that {sepli} = is the spatial counterpart of {te temci}.)
{.i lo ni lo jubme cu clani cu pelji li re la .meter. } / { .i li re parbi lo ni lo jubme cu clani ku la .meter. }

  1. gunro x1 rolls/trundles on/against surface x2 rotating on axis/axle x3; x1 is a roller.
  2. junla x1 is clock/watch/timer measuring time units x2 to precision x3 with timing mechanism/method x4.
  3. junta x1 is the weight of object x2 in [gravitational or other force] field x3.
It seems {junta} is actually {x1 is the gravitational force between x2 and x3}, although this needs confirmation.
If so, you could probably say:
{ li ci=C2=A0 parbi=C2=A0 lo junta be lo jubme (bei la terdi)=C2=A0 lo = junta be lo stizu (bei la terdi) }


  2. lanxe x1 is in balance/equilibrium under forces x2 (mass).
    1. Can lanxe1 be an abstraction?=C2=A0Can lanxe1 be an objec= t?
  3. lidne x1 precedes/leads x2 in sequence x3; x1 is former/preceding/previous; x2 is latter/following.
    1. Can lidne1 be an abstraction?=C2=A0Can lidne1 be an objec= t? The same question for lidne2
{ me'o .ibu me'o ny lidne zo lidne } =E2=80=94 =C2=AB The letter "i" pr= ecedes the letter "n" in the word "lidne". =C2=BB
{ mi do lidne zo'e noi porsi lo ka sutmau ku lo'i bajra } =E2=80=94 =C2= =AB I precede you in the sequence made from the set of the runners, ordered by speed. =C2=BB

(Please correct me if my use of porsi-2 is wrong.)

And, yes, {lidne}'s x1 and x2 can contain an abstraction, because abstraction sequences are possible.

  1. pinfu x1 is a prisoner/captive of x2, restrained/held/confined by means/force x3.

pe'i You should have added {farna} to your list. :)

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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