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Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 14:01:21 -0400
From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] A bunch of mysterious gismu
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I don't have time for all these, but

On 5/21/2014 11:27 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 14:06:57 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>> I tried to fill all places of all 1342 gismu with something reasonable.
>> Here are the gismu that are most problematic for me.
>>
>> What do I want? To show at least one usable example of **each** place in
>> these gismu:
>>     1. cmaci x1 is a mathematics of type/describing x2.
>>     1. What is "type"? Please don't cheat with {caltaicmaci} in cmaci1. Is
>>        cmaci1 an abstraction?
>
> I'd say x1 is a collection of axioms, theorems, methods of computation, etc.

Most likely x1 would be filled by a name or a mathematical jargon word. 
  I am no longer up on such words, but at the time I was presented with 
the existence of what I'll call "E-Prime mathematics", which is a 
mathematics that rejects the axiom of equality or identity.

Also there are mathematics of rings and other set-constructs, as well as 
those involving different sets of numbers (integers, rationals, reals, 
etc., some of which end up with properties inconsistent with others)

>>     2. gradu x1 [magnitude] is a unit/degree of/on scale/reference standard
>>     x2 (si'o) measuring property x3.
>
> I don't see how scales can be reference standards. I'm giving an example with
> a reference standard: "lo si'o snidu cu gradu lo nu lo sodnrcezi ratni cu
> slilu 9192631770roi kei lo temci"

Celsius and Kelvin are both scales using the same reference standards 
(absolute zero, and the melting and boiling point of water in a standard 
environment).  A degree is the same unit on both scales.  Fahrenheit 
scale uses the same standards nowadays, but has different sized units. 
But I don't know which you'd call "fahrenheit" - the name of the scale 
or of the standard (or both).  So I included both terms in the definition.

> I'd like to see examples of "gucti" and "minli" with all places filled. (They
> disagree; that's not the point. I don't know what's supposed to go in a
> subunits place.)

It would probably depend on what subunits are applicable.  minli could 
be subdivided into feet, or into yards, or into furlongs. And that is 
only for the American unit.  Which one of multiple options is intended 
would have to be expressed in a relative phrase modifier, if it is not 
implicit from context.

lojbab

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