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From: Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:58:46 -0400
Message-ID: <CAOQ8VDUjN2a0gkxAQXw48PKthgM4J85Tb9suyjO+tn+O=yoJJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Repeating specific sumti within the same bridi
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.i la latro'a di'e cusku

There are a number of options. If you're using the same sumti twice in a
> row, {ri} is perfect for the job; they carry the referent, not the symbol.
> The counting rule for {ri} is a little weird: it refers to the most recent
> sumti which is fully closed, where we are counting in order of beginnings.
> So in {lo nu broda ko'a cu brode ri}, {ri} refers back to {ko'a}, as it is
> the most recently-begun sumti which is fully closed. This rule is slightly
> confusing because it does not mean that it refers back to the most
> recently-closed sumti, which in my example is {lo nu broda ko'a}.
>

In fact, the ri-series skips other KOhA, except those in the ri-series and
in the ti-series. There are some KOhA for which I don't think the CLL is
clear on, namely zo'e and ce'u. I also don't think it's explicit whether BY
are skipped by the ri-series.

In your particular case, the problem is probably best fixed by a scope
> trick:
>
> .i na ku ro da zo'u lo du'u da barda narju bo bolci cu nibli lo du'u da
> najnimre
>
> "It is not the case that for every X, the proposition "X is a big
> orange-sphere" implies the proposition "X is an orange [citrus fruit]"."
>

I agree this is the most elegant solution.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">.i la latro&#39;a di&#39;e cusku<br><br><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">

<div><div><div><div><div><div>There are a number of options. If you&#39;re =
using the same sumti twice in a row, {ri} is perfect for the job; they carr=
y the referent, not the symbol. The counting rule for {ri} is a little weir=
d: it refers to the most recent sumti which is fully closed, where we are c=
ounting in order of beginnings. So in {lo nu broda ko&#39;a cu brode ri}, {=
ri} refers back to {ko&#39;a}, as it is the most recently-begun sumti which=
 is fully closed. This rule is slightly confusing because it does not mean =
that it refers back to the most recently-closed sumti, which in my example =
is {lo nu broda ko&#39;a}.<br>

</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br>In fact, th=
e ri-series skips other KOhA, except those in the ri-series and in the ti-s=
eries. There are some KOhA for which I don&#39;t think the CLL is clear on,=
 namely zo&#39;e and ce&#39;u. I also don&#39;t think it&#39;s explicit whe=
ther BY are skipped by the ri-series. <br>

<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>In=
 your particular case, the problem is probably best fixed by a scope trick:=
<br>


<br></div>.i na ku ro da zo&#39;u lo du&#39;u da barda narju bo bolci cu ni=
bli lo du&#39;u da <br>najnimre<br><br></div>&quot;It is not the case that =
for every X, the proposition &quot;X is a big orange-sphere&quot; implies t=
he proposition &quot;X is an orange [citrus fruit]&quot;.&quot;</div>

</div></blockquote><div><br>I agree this is the most elegant solution.<br><=
br>.i mi&#39;e la tsani mu&#39;o<br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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