Received: from mail-vc0-f184.google.com ([209.85.220.184]:44740) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XWnnP-0001so-2Y for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:44:02 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f184.google.com with SMTP id le20sf1718068vcb.21 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=EnqdKLG0fvdACaAQQJzva5N9xjx1dG8sULzaFA1bUHk=; b=FInJKx28TjDmrRUkvUivTTgiEbtA2crFSGLYQc6+zc4Dwwx+LYLs1DJIRXOFP1wUaL TuWvhNjaJ4JtxdZfNfiYEx/lmncMQ8g0uYP7a2DCGDUd8+obsswhKB8XbOO+0x3pbSwx 0yAYwo6g8fHK2PVX/utJ/rk9lG5/rdQ6TgqmfZtLKxc47oipG6A45JEW5Md+sgZlJ95j I06I9GWuTuqJRl6F3BDQoNbDBEvURXguNQvx4cdFlKhwB4A0WjRlCGI9maNpqSe8WR0T UQP/YAYDLQCKw3rGtlvNIc23Au963bWrOzs/fydmXi4HUQ0KXg/qhMX8rWmm9h5lnAsq dj0g== X-Received: by 10.50.80.72 with SMTP id p8mr463872igx.9.1411569828691; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.79.198 with SMTP id l6ls981602igx.39.gmail; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.70.140.36 with SMTP id rd4mr5427881pdb.1.1411569827519; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22e.google.com (mail-qg0-x22e.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i3si2964295qcm.3.2014.09.24.07.43.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e; Received: by mail-qg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id q108so5976825qgd.19 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.121.7 with SMTP id f7mr9511410qcr.28.1411569827377; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.30.132 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Sep 2014 07:43:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:43:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oi bei From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134422a22f7cf0503d0b634 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 5388 --001a1134422a22f7cf0503d0b634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Though I suppose as xorxes pointed out, we could simply be forced to terminate every {be ... be'o} construction. But {be} was conceived of, as best I can tell, as being much like a genitive case (in English, like the word "of"). Thus usually {be} appears with a single sumti in the chain, which means saving the {be'o} saves more words, especially in speech, than saving {bei} does. mi'e la latro'a mu'o On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:34 AM, TR NS wrote: > >> Why is bei necessary in a be ... be'o construction? Is seems extraneous. >> > > It's not strictly necessary, just convenient, so you don't need a > terminator in "broda lo brode be ko'a ko'e", which was considered to be > potentially more frequent than "broda lo brode be ko'a bei ko'e". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a1134422a22f7cf0503d0b634 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Though I suppose as xorxes pointed out, we could simp= ly be forced to terminate every {be ... be'o} construction. But {be} wa= s conceived of, as best I can tell, as being much like a genitive case (in = English, like the word "of"). Thus usually {be} appears with a si= ngle sumti in the chain, which means saving the {be'o} saves more words= , especially in speech, than saving {bei} does.

mi'e la la= tro'a mu'o

On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjll= ambias@gmail.com> wrote:


On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:34 AM, TR NS <transfire@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Why is bei necessary in a be ... be'o construction? Is seems extr= aneous.

It's not strictly = necessary, just convenient, so you don't need a terminator in "bro= da lo brode be ko'a ko'e", which was considered to be potentia= lly more frequent than "broda lo brode be ko'a bei ko'e".=

mu'o mi'e xorxes.

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