Received: from mail-ie0-f186.google.com ([209.85.223.186]:34770) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XRo9X-0004gi-DC for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:06:08 -0700 Received: by mail-ie0-f186.google.com with SMTP id ar1sf643139iec.3 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pvgnNNxaPyUs4DDrzoTAURtGx2YrtQSnhPjJmF0t66g=; b=VeRE064lMwgYspzopgqT1nSea3+18Ta+c2OHezG8TSa371dGrFkARDAEPBrLFmQD49 T3qlnVqe1pZ1Ae+UxVZF7X15K/thW5Jj245URQviZX6lRPgdw180+l8TlJrFNVike2sq TXNKQrHRy6JwhIeoFmq+4agOjNqTe6maI6fbGSHaZaY0L+B4i57Ed+pRKuQaGaZUMsSh PCOAXr7STMfOvqjiyiKzYFnSJrYhBgge4ZICAjh8YnyOMhkXdCwFllQ1wb6ACwDNSON2 1Caza/DwTAQRvU5S7xPoCYrFYw/oZ6LUa00Bflu6i1+JUQxyxT29S11PINqC6750kjrU Ja9A== X-Received: by 10.50.73.40 with SMTP id i8mr458775igv.1.1410379561112; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:06:01 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.79.198 with SMTP id l6ls3443048igx.39.gmail; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.25.129 with SMTP id c1mr6863666igg.7.1410379559516; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-x234.google.com (mail-qa0-x234.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id im3si1526468qcb.1.2014.09.10.13.05.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234; Received: by mail-qa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id m5so1481276qaj.11 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.37.9 with SMTP id q9mr61642636qgq.40.1410379559327; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.30.132 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:05:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2845747.BXNi2yFm3g@caracal> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:05:59 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ma xe fanva zoigy.Dial 911.gy. From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1358aa1df2f0502bb94b7 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 20842 --001a11c1358aa1df2f0502bb94b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 {ri} can be argued to grab {di'u} there, since it begins after {la'e di'u}, is closed, and cannot be repeated to retrieve the same referent. mi'e la latro'a mu'o On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > What do you think ri refers to in my statement? Because the intended > referent was {la'edi'u}. > > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > >> .ienai >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> zo ra enai zo ri >>> >>> 2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ko jorne la'e li 911 >>>>> >>>> >>>> .i na nelci lonu do pilno zo jorne la'edi'u .iku'i radji'i.ei lodu'u ri >>>> mapti >>>> >>>> >>>>> i zo aktygau cu su'oroi mapti >>>>> >>>>> 2014-09-10 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> jorne >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ??? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> 2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, >>>>>>>>> opening a >>>>>>>>> cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening >>>>>>>>> a cupboard >>>>>>>>> is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talking about >>>>>>>>> what you do >>>>>>>>> to the cupboard. Any suggestions? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any >>>>>>>> language which uses a word that means something other than "open"? Can you >>>>>>>> express the concept you're talking about in any language that you know, in >>>>>>>> a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples you gave? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Going way off the deep end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard >>>>>>>> box is basically transforming a hollow, convex cube into a concave... >>>>>>>> hexahedron?... for the purposes of gaining access to what was the interior, >>>>>>>> but that seems to me just a very esoteric and wordy way to convey the exact >>>>>>>> same thing "opening a box". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c1358aa1df2f0502bb94b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
{ri} can be argued to grab {di'u} there, since it= begins after {la'e di'u}, is closed, and cannot be repeated to ret= rieve the same referent.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o
<= /div>

On Wed, Sep = 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wro= te:
What do you think ri refers to in my statement? Because the intended= referent was {la'edi'u}.


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus= @gmail.com> wrote:
.ienai


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
zo ra enai zo ri

2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 = Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <glek= i.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
ko jorne la'e li 911

.i na nelci lonu do pilno zo jorne la'edi'u .iku= 9;i radji'i.ei lodu'u ri mapti
=C2=A0
=
i zo aktyga= u cu su'oroi mapti

=
2014-09-10 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeo= nus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10,= 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
jorne<= /div>

???
=C2=A0
2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Se= p 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrot= e:
The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, opening a=
cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a cupboar= d
is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talk= ing about what you do
to the cupboard. Any suggestions?
=C2=A0
I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any= language which uses a word that means something other than "open"= ;? Can you express the concept you're talking about in any language tha= t you know, in a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examp= les you gave?

Going way off the dee= p end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box is basically transforming a= hollow, convex cube into a concave... hexahedron?... for the purposes of g= aining access to what was the interior, but that seems to me just a very es= oteric and wordy way to convey the exact same thing "opening a box&quo= t;.

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--001a11c1358aa1df2f0502bb94b7--