Received: from mail-wg0-f57.google.com ([74.125.82.57]:61022) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XUHdI-0006mN-OX for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:59:05 -0700 Received: by mail-wg0-f57.google.com with SMTP id m15sf166245wgh.2 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+J0LypmzaCb6SxJ3VmzLh01aQXRWqNES3cy5leJbL6I=; b=kcXRA6+R6wQv+Cy/AgqiouTa08+L4sX7Qhr+juytu6LZNtrNrwootENRYXaM1KKkhP PVXaYtH9kZeRQCsxwMHT/HLiC46hvRV9wKadhQyAyku++obxcFAhWanbs/BypPBk5RDs Uy8JUdttL1IlHpeUEKkFd/8m2grBPJua+PBjfnyvmCuwNlDfO4b4RGtOCy8ru6kBiEJb oN0uUoH7XSAO6e8CICCCt5OGg3FzUwsvrhjVzFxXauijBIMWPVe6YLIuBumvY3hv1jwf eIE6B1BZn/ncuByfokjg/kBb76IYS39gWz4/WOvy2fqnABJLYdwW2SMrB6EyWOOmsFk9 jFwg== X-Received: by 10.152.5.169 with SMTP id t9mr15133lat.12.1410969538157; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.9.226 with SMTP id d2ls122788lab.66.gmail; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.123.135 with SMTP id ma7mr6393lbb.20.1410969535983; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22e.google.com (mail-wg0-x22e.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f9si317100wib.2.2014.09.17.08.58.55 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e; Received: by mail-wg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id n12so1630310wgh.29 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.14.101 with SMTP id o5mr6763171wic.25.1410969535863; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.89.193 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 19:58:55 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {kancu4} From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d041555fcf963cf050344f1c4 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 7286 --f46d041555fcf963cf050344f1c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-09-17 19:46 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> i mi kancu lo prenu li pa re lo kanla >> i mi kancu fo lo nu stapa >> >> Which usage of kancu4 is more correct? Both? >> > > The first one says that there are exactly two of the eyes which you are > using as the units to count people, which barely makes sense. > Why two ? .i `.' [1(2[kancu1 (count-er(s)) :] mi I, me)2 [is, does] =C2=AB3kancu count-ing=C2=BB3 (4[kancu2 (counted set(s)) :] lo any/some prenu person(s))= 4 (5[kancu3 (count result(s)) :] li No. pa 1 re 2)5 (6[kancu4 (count unit(s)) :] lo any/some kanla eye(s))6]1 pare is 12. > Which two eyes were they, the left one and the right one? But then say at > least "ro re lo kanla" so we are not left to wonder whether there are oth= er > eyes that were not used. And since you came to the same result using each > unit, does that mean there were twelve people and everyone had two eyes, = or > just that there were at leat twelve people and the number of people with = no > left eye was equal to the number with no right eye? > > As for the second one, yes, you can use steps as the unit, but without > context we don't know what you are counting. > > In general, x4 will be the same things that you are counting, but an > example where the unit is something other that what you are counting coul= d > be: > > mi kancu lo prenu li pa re lo re mei > I counted the people as 12 couples. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d041555fcf963cf050344f1c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-09-17 19:46 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.co= m>:

On Wed, Sep 17= , 2014 at 3:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com= > wrote:
i mi kancu lo = prenu li pa re lo kanla
i mi kancu fo lo nu stapa

Which usage of kancu4 is more correct? Both?

The first one says that there are exactly = two of the eyes which you are using as the units to count people, which bar= ely makes sense.

W= hy two ?
.i `.' [1(2[kancu1 (count-er(s)) :] mi I, me)2 [is, = does] =C2=AB3kancu count-ing=C2=BB3 (4[kancu2 (counted set(s)) :] lo any/so= me prenu person(s))4 (5[kancu3 (count result(s)) :] li No. pa 1 re 2)5 (6[k= ancu4 (count unit(s)) :] lo any/some kanla eye(s))6]1

pare is 12.
=C2=A0
Which two eyes were they, the left on= e and the right one? But then say at least "ro re lo kanla" so we= are not left to wonder whether there are other eyes that were not used. An= d since you came to the same result using each unit, does that mean there w= ere twelve people and everyone had two eyes, or just that there were at lea= t twelve people and the number of people with no left eye was equal to the = number with no right eye?

As for the second one, y= es, you can use steps as the unit, but without context we don't know wh= at you are counting.

In general, x4 will be the sa= me things that you are counting, but an example where the unit is something= other that what you are counting could be:

=C2=A0= mi kancu lo prenu li pa re lo re mei
=C2=A0 I counted the people= as 12 couples.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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