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Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:01:45 +0200
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] oi bei
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On 26/09/2014, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>
>
> 2014-09-26 8:32 GMT+04:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com=20
> <mailto:transfire@gmail.com>>:
>
>
>
>     On Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:28:10 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:
>
>
>         TR NS, if you feel that it would work for you, invent this
>         cmavo and start using it!
>
>         It'd be also nice if you could define the syntax of this new
>         cmavo in PEG but we all believe that it wouldn't be ambiguous
>         syntactically so defining in PEG is not a must.
>
>         What doesn't work for others might work for you and then more
>         people.
>
>
>     As my skill improves, I imagine I will inevitable do so. But that
>     will take some time yet. In the mean time, what unused cmavo are
>     left that I could use?
>
> Probably you would want cmavo in CV'Vi space where C is a consonant=20
> and V is a vowel.
>
> Check if a given cmavo isnt defined yet here:
> e.g.
> http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/be'ei=20
> <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/be%27ei>
> See? {be'ei} hasn't been yet defined.
> You may try others.
>

If what you want is forethought be...bei...be'o, I would suggest you to=20
use either { lo'oi <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/lo%27oi>=20
[bridi+ke'a] (vau) } or { lo poi'i=20
<http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/poi%27i> [bridi+ke'a] (kei) }  (those=20
are equivalent in meaning; bridi+ke'a means "a bridi containing=20
=E2=80=94implicitly or explicitly=E2=80=94 a relative pronoun {ke'a}, just =
like the=20
bridi introduced by {noi} and {poi}").

As their word shape shows, {lo'oi}=20
<http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/lo%27oi> and {poi'i}=20
<http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/poi%27i> are experimental cmavo. The=20
former is just the full-bridi version of {lo} (and it belongs to an=20
experimental selma'o LOhOI):  lo broda be ko'a bei ko'e bei ko'i (be'o)=20
=3D lo'oi (ke'a) broda ko'a ko'e ko'i (vau).
This can be handy for building complex description sumti containing=20
several nesting levels, such as {lo'oi mi kucli lo du'u xu kau do penmi=20
ke'a} =3D "The one(s) which is/are such that I wonder whether you met=20
him/her/them".

As for {poi'i}, it belongs to the NU selma'o and has the following=20
definition: =C2=AB x1 is such that poi'i abstraction is true; x1 binds ke'a=
=20
within the abstraction. =C2=BB
Example: {mi poi'i do penmi ke'a (kei)} =3D {mi se penmi do}  (the ke'a=20
pronoun stands for the x1 of poi'i, here it's "mi").

Both {lo'oi} and {poi'i} are currently supported by the experimental=20
version of Camxes <http://ilmen.tk/lojban/camxes-exp.html> (this is an=20
unofficial version of Camxes used for testing various grammar change=20
proposals and implementing most of the frequently used experimental cmavo).

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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    <meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8" http-equiv=3D"Content-Type=
">
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  <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    <div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 26/09/2014, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite=3D"mid:CAO7bV+i5TvSThe3eVoBxZvK_aEkuOgh6hWOzjUsh9ywNr-0WnA@mail.gmail.=
com"
      type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
        <div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
          <div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-09-26 8:32 GMT+04:00 TR NS <span
              dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                href=3D"mailto:transfire@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">trans=
fire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
            <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-=
style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D""><br>
                  <br>
                  On Thursday, September 25, 2014 1:28:10 AM UTC-4, la
                  gleki wrote:
                  <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px
                    0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-=
style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div dir=3D"ltr">
                      <div>
                        <div class=3D"gmail_quote">
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>TR NS, if you feel that it would work for
                            you, invent this cmavo and start using it!</div=
>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>It'd be also nice if you could define the
                            syntax of this new cmavo in PEG but we all
                            believe that it wouldn't be ambiguous
                            syntactically so defining in PEG is not a
                            must.</div>
                          <div><br>
                          </div>
                          <div>What doesn't work for others might work
                            for you and then more people.</div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </span>
                <div>As my skill improves, I imagine I will inevitable
                  do so. But that will take some time yet. In the mean
                  time, what unused cmavo are left that I could use? =C2=A0=
</div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div>Probably you would want cmavo in CV'Vi space where C is
              a consonant and V is a vowel.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Check if a given cmavo isnt defined yet here:</div>
            <div>e.g.</div>
            <div><a moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
                href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/be%27ei">http://jb=
ovlaste.lojban.org/dict/be'ei</a></div>
            <div>See? {be'ei} hasn't been yet defined.</div>
            <div>You may try others.</div>
            <br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    If what you want is forethought be...bei...be'o, I would suggest you
    to use either { <a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/lo%27oi">lo=
'oi</a>
    [bridi+ke'a] (vau) } or { lo <a
      href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/poi%27i">poi'i</a>
    [bridi+ke'a] (kei) }=C2=A0 (those are equivalent in meaning; bridi+ke'a
    means "a bridi containing =E2=80=94implicitly or explicitly=E2=80=94 a =
relative
    pronoun {ke'a}, just like the bridi introduced by {noi} and {poi}").<br=
>
    <br>
    As their word shape shows, <a
      href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/lo%27oi">{lo'oi}</a> and <a
      href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/poi%27i">{poi'i}</a> are
    experimental cmavo. The former is just the full-bridi version of
    {lo} (and it belongs to an experimental selma'o LOhOI):=C2=A0 lo broda =
be
    ko'a bei ko'e bei ko'i (be'o) =3D lo'oi (ke'a) broda ko'a ko'e ko'i
    (vau).<br>
    This can be handy for building complex description sumti containing
    several nesting levels, such as {lo'oi mi kucli lo du'u xu kau do
    penmi ke'a} =3D "The one(s) which is/are such that I wonder whether
    you met him/her/them".<br>
    <br>
    As for {poi'i}, it belongs to the NU selma'o and has the following
    definition: =C2=AB x1 is such that poi'i abstraction is true; x1 binds
    ke'a within the abstraction. =C2=BB<br>
    Example: {mi poi'i do penmi ke'a (kei)} =3D {mi se penmi do}=C2=A0 (the
    ke'a pronoun stands for the x1 of poi'i, here it's "mi").<br>
    <br>
    Both {lo'oi} and {poi'i} are currently supported by <a
      href=3D"http://ilmen.tk/lojban/camxes-exp.html">the experimental
      version of Camxes</a> (this is an unofficial version of Camxes
    used for testing various grammar change proposals and implementing
    most of the frequently used experimental cmavo).<br>
    <br>
    mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o<br>
  </body>
</html>

<p></p>

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