Received: from mail-ee0-f55.google.com ([74.125.83.55]:44973) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XdZ5E-00079S-B9 for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:21 -0700 Received: by mail-ee0-f55.google.com with SMTP id b57sf93896eek.0 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=kbEvfTeAh2s3zkUl3cC9piUglgclbMt5Jhb85buCgsQ=; b=v1dXli8YGz4zWSkve0F/qCO0oCkAj3JQXifC2+110E9PdShKnkWrXH6Lzmm5xCYwZO EpgE3BYIXsztp7rOgIJFNV3LhMN9lV/Jdqcj7+huI5g8ZD5Z3kjHqTPSshodNnoe2nnl adqUKG/Uem8wcGnLUUAVjJvZVjL/+ve04c2zVswqS0HTl8PuxRetkl09gJmkKJRVns7A ZZm+8V9kc48h9TAX0eX3VB6ptgVGYAMtoHSSJFJvE+gmkjk7yzIbaEQPifW5wcXESAJW nZdLOAyLM7emFQD8jhXkMfNqIwv6Ib9RZafuo1Rds1KDzGKoJsaf+PXBjXAkc4K5Y0br 1QNw== X-Received: by 10.180.186.230 with SMTP id fn6mr106993wic.11.1413181569110; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.103.225 with SMTP id fz1ls370624wib.44.canary; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.76.70 with SMTP id i6mr10102wjw.5.1413181568112; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cy3si513021wib.2.2014.10.12.23.26.08 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::233; Received: by mail-wi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id d1so6496645wiv.0 for ; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.198.100 with SMTP id jb4mr14835286wic.22.1413181568026; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.175.167 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Oct 2014 23:26:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <543B59B3.7040308@lojban.org> References: <543B59B3.7040308@lojban.org> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:26:07 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] what can be lenjo2 if not lo gusni? From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6246085d913a050547f9a9 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 8016 --047d7b6246085d913a050547f9a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2014-10-13 8:48 GMT+04:00 Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG < lojbab@lojban.org>: > On 10/12/2014 3:27 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > >> ti lenjo lo gusni lo darno >> This lens focusing light has a long focal length. >> >> Correct? >> >> Now what about lenjo2? >> >> lenjo = x1 is a lens/glass [focussing shape/form] focussing x2 to >> focus/foci x3 by means/material x4. (adjective:) x1 is optical; >> focussing may be optical or otherwise, hence x2 which may be light, >> sound, X-ray, etc., default is light/optical lens; ka is refraction. See >> also kacma, minra. >> >> Can it be other than {LE gusni}? >> > > consider the concepts of "prism" (which focuses different frequencies of > light in different foci, and "gravitational lens" (which can apply to any > sort of electromagnetic energy, not limited to light), "fresnel lens", > "diffraction" (especially atmospheric refraction/diffraction which covers a > variety of effects). Then there is the effects of the atmospheric layers > on radio signals, and the propagation of earthquake waves and other sound > through the earth. > > What is (potentially or actually) refracted/diffracted by these various > things might or might not be conveyed using gusni. We were trying to make > a gismu that could be compounded in a variety of ways to handle a wide > range of phenomena. > > This probably applies to a lot of other gismu that you've asked about. > Always think about what phenomena one might attempt to stretch the gismu to > cover, bearing in mind that when we created the gismu, the expectation was > that metaphorical/metonymical meanings i dont think gravitational lens is lens in only a metaphorical way but thank you for suggestion. Sometimes it's hard to find everyday life examples for some places, in this cases I ask others. My goals is to find most common usage examples for most places. would also crop up, if not in the gismu themselves, in tanru and lujvo. We > thus tried to word the place structures as broadly and flexibly as > possible, expecting that usage would eventually refine what was acceptable > (back then, we were not expecting to baseline the place structures very > early, but the community overruled me on that). > > lojbab > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b6246085d913a050547f9a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2014-10-13 8:48 GMT+04:00 Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG = <lojbab@lojban.org>:
On 10/12/2014 3:27 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wr= ote:
ti lenjo lo gusni lo darno
This lens focusing light has a long focal length.

Correct?

Now what about lenjo2?

lenjo =3D x1 is a lens/glass [focussing shape/form] focussing x2 to
focus/foci x3 by means/material x4. (adjective:) x1 is optical;
focussing may be optical or otherwise, hence x2 which may be light,
sound, X-ray, etc., default is light/optical lens; ka is refraction. See also kacma, minra.

Can it be other than {LE gusni}?

consider the concepts of "prism" (which focuses different frequen= cies of light in different foci, and "gravitational lens" (which = can apply to any sort of electromagnetic energy, not limited to light), &qu= ot;fresnel lens", "diffraction" (especially atmospheric refr= action/diffraction which covers a variety of effects).=C2=A0 Then there is = the effects of the atmospheric layers on radio signals, and the propagation= of earthquake waves and other sound through the earth.

What is (potentially or actually) refracted/diffracted by these various thi= ngs might or might not be conveyed using gusni.=C2=A0 We were trying to mak= e a gismu that could be compounded in a variety of ways to handle a wide ra= nge of phenomena.

This probably applies to a lot of other gismu that you've asked about. = Always think about what phenomena one might attempt to stretch the gismu to= cover, bearing in mind that when we created the gismu, the expectation was= that metaphorical/metonymical meanings

i d= ont think gravitational lens is lens in only a metaphorical way but thank y= ou for suggestion.

Sometimes it's hard to find= everyday life examples for some places, in this cases I ask others. My goa= ls is to find most common usage examples for most places.

would also crop up, if not in the gismu = themselves, in tanru and lujvo.=C2=A0 We thus tried to word the place struc= tures as broadly and flexibly as possible, expecting that usage would event= ually refine what was acceptable (back then, we were not expecting to basel= ine the place structures very early, but the community overruled me on that= ).

lojbab

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