Received: from mail-wg0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]:46530) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy52T-0006Ah-K7 for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:15 -0800 Received: by mail-wg0-f61.google.com with SMTP id n12sf502305wgh.26 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=gckkOT6O/JLWA+UnUQ5Rq3c2yp/84PWyD8kREX0nRkI=; b=W91JlFd5HOKaZPmzeUvn50gUeWwDLSamgWqh38t8oNY2iaa0ww/saHxlCD+7eSrIFr YrIAGJtxA/6D/CmW2CabeNZZsyAu93yYrYBV9eKTw9OWzLCQAtydvpRltzR0dO4L8BVr 42MLT+3gnbGwwRBg+80+pOof63x2TRISv78Jx64wXe9DPpq/8iwymAaUAI1ryqMisznR DK8rEAL7QLbLx+E6Z5dkmyPh/8NrrxdNzeoBDTkE1mw/1jsbzBGU941XEwPTRtatVoTc oJ8tmzztO030Hw2ptHlDXlTBt0GfON8ABVZ+q5A76k3WqVPaGwaMvIR+vFssUL7ZYhDJ HX1g== X-Received: by 10.152.3.74 with SMTP id a10mr30902laa.34.1418070966956; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:06 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.36.130 with SMTP id q2ls605140laj.65.gmail; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.152.5.2 with SMTP id o2mr6588026lao.1.1418070965391; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com (mail-wi0-x229.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d18si421394wiv.0.2014.12.08.12.36.05 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::229; Received: by mail-wi0-x229.google.com with SMTP id r20so8222058wiv.2 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:05 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.246.167 with SMTP id xx7mr1694578wjc.118.1418070965304; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.102] (95-210-209-168.ip.skylogicnet.com. [95.210.209.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ex8sm57951948wjd.41.2014.12.08.12.36.01 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:36:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <54860BA3.7070907@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 21:35:47 +0100 From: Ilmen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: [lojban-beginners] Does {mi te benji ko'a} imply {mi cpacu ko'a}? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Original-Sender: ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 1192 coi ro do I have a question related to predicates such as {benji}, {cusku}, {mrilu} etc. All these are related to the idea of transferring something to a recipient. My question is: do they imply that the recipient successfully receives the transferred thing? Does {mi te benji ko'a} imply {mi cpacu ko'a}? Is {mi cusku lu coi do li'u ko'o} true if ko'o is sleeping and cannot receive lo se cusku? I think both versions (with and without implying a successful receipt) are useful, but if one must be chosen, not implying a successful receipt allows for more flexibility, although requires more verbosity when the speaker does want to say that the receiving was successful (e.g. {mi benji ko'e fo'o .i je fo'o cpacu ko'e}). mu'o mi'e la .ilmen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.