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[2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q25si165638yhb.6.2015.01.28.11.03.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Jan 2015 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a; Received: by mail-qg0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id q107so18121583qgd.1 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2015 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.23.133 with SMTP id r5mr16455949qab.88.1422471813563; Wed, 28 Jan 2015 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.176.135 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Jan 2015 11:03:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <2845747.BXNi2yFm3g@caracal> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 14:03:33 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] ma xe fanva zoigy.Dial 911.gy. From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2277a268fcc050dbb0791 X-Original-Sender: Mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.8 X-Spam_score_int: 8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > Using {klagau} (or as I would prefer it {klacpe}) is not quite as vague as > the English "Call 911!", which could be intended to result in something > other than them coming. I'll discuss this a bit later. > > As for dialing numbers in general, yes, it has to do with pressing some > buttons in some order, but that's very low-level a way to think about it. I > suspect most people operate on a level higher than "pressing buttons in an > order" when calling someone. When I call someone, I'm thinking of a number > (actually a group of numbers, but how people group them differs between > cultures and even intraculturally) that I identify with the callee. That > being said, and disregarding this number grouping problem, we can just use > {la'e li} to get to the person or institution associated with the number. > After all, that is the very purpose of la'e. > > Using {li} can lead to some abuse, as we must evaluate the expression > thereafter. Therefore, someone could write {.i ko klacpe la'e li sonono > su'i papa} equivalently to {.i ko klacpe la'e li sopapa}. Furthermore, > using {li} lends itself to problems when we're talking about dialing > special numbers such as "*69" or other numbers involving special > characters. Therefore, this suggests that {me'o} is indeed more > appropriate, since it is the commonly used way to refer to a character > string as such, rather than as the interpretation thereof. (The latter case > beijikca)ng handled by {li} as shown above.) Therefore one should write {.i > ko klacpe la'e me'o sopapa}. > > Still, there's the issue of {klacpe} not being adequately vague to > translate the English. Of course, we might just not care about vagueness > here, and I for one would most often be content with just saying {.i ko > klacpe la'e me'o sopapa} when emergencies occur. However, the focus of the > English is not so much on the summoning of the police or emergency > services, but rather on contacting them, the result of which is left to > context or is unimportant. For this, I have no [...] Content analysis details: (0.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 2.7 DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL RBL: Envelope sender listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org [listed in googlegroups.com.rhsbl.ahbl.org. IN] [A] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.213.55 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 T_HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (mturniansky[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders Content-Length: 32408 --001a11c2277a268fcc050dbb0791 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > Using {klagau} (or as I would prefer it {klacpe}) is not quite as vague as > the English "Call 911!", which could be intended to result in something > other than them coming. I'll discuss this a bit later. > > As for dialing numbers in general, yes, it has to do with pressing some > buttons in some order, but that's very low-level a way to think about it. I > suspect most people operate on a level higher than "pressing buttons in an > order" when calling someone. When I call someone, I'm thinking of a number > (actually a group of numbers, but how people group them differs between > cultures and even intraculturally) that I identify with the callee. That > being said, and disregarding this number grouping problem, we can just use > {la'e li} to get to the person or institution associated with the number. > After all, that is the very purpose of la'e. > > Using {li} can lead to some abuse, as we must evaluate the expression > thereafter. Therefore, someone could write {.i ko klacpe la'e li sonono > su'i papa} equivalently to {.i ko klacpe la'e li sopapa}. Furthermore, > using {li} lends itself to problems when we're talking about dialing > special numbers such as "*69" or other numbers involving special > characters. Therefore, this suggests that {me'o} is indeed more > appropriate, since it is the commonly used way to refer to a character > string as such, rather than as the interpretation thereof. (The latter case > beijikca)ng handled by {li} as shown above.) Therefore one should write {.i > ko klacpe la'e me'o sopapa}. > > Still, there's the issue of {klacpe} not being adequately vague to > translate the English. Of course, we might just not care about vagueness > here, and I for one would most often be content with just saying {.i ko > klacpe la'e me'o sopapa} when emergencies occur. However, the focus of the > English is not so much on the summoning of the police or emergency > services, but rather on contacting them, the result of which is left to > context or is unimportant. For this, I have no objections to {jorne}. > Although it does seem metaphorical at first, we can see that the physical > case is really just a special case of the so-called metaphorical one. As > such, the reading I have of the definition of {jorne} is "jorne = x1 is in > contact with/connected to x2 by x3." Gismu should be broad, and it would > thus feel unlojbanic to me for us to arbitrarily restrict jorne to physical > cases only, especially in the face of having no other adequate way of > expressing the nonphysical cases. > > All in all, I would write {.i ko jorne la'e me'o sopapa}. > > What's wrong with "ko fonta'a la'e me'o sopapa"? After all, don't you really at base want to use the phone to talk to them (or at the very least, inform them of your existence)? I don't think "jorne" should be used in the sense of "make contact with" (sera'a lo pu'u jikca penmi) Re: Pierre's quest for opening say, a cardboard box, I think kargau is fine. You are creating access to lo nenri be lo tanxe --gejyspa .i mi'e la tsani mu'o > > > > > On 10 September 2014 16:05, Ian Johnson wrote: > >> {ri} can be argued to grab {di'u} there, since it begins after {la'e >> di'u}, is closed, and cannot be repeated to retrieve the same referent. >> >> mi'e la latro'a mu'o >> >> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Jones >> wrote: >> >>> What do you think ri refers to in my statement? Because the intended >>> referent was {la'edi'u}. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jones >>> wrote: >>> >>>> .ienai >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> zo ra enai zo ri >>>>> >>>>> 2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ko jorne la'e li 911 >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> .i na nelci lonu do pilno zo jorne la'edi'u .iku'i radji'i.ei lodu'u >>>>>> ri mapti >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> i zo aktygau cu su'oroi mapti >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2014-09-10 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> jorne >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ??? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a >>>>>>>>>>> webpage, opening a >>>>>>>>>>> cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. >>>>>>>>>>> Opening a cupboard >>>>>>>>>>> is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talking >>>>>>>>>>> about what you do >>>>>>>>>>> to the cupboard. Any suggestions? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there >>>>>>>>>> any language which uses a word that means something other than "open"? Can >>>>>>>>>> you express the concept you're talking about in any language that you know, >>>>>>>>>> in a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examples you gave? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Going way off the deep end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard >>>>>>>>>> box is basically transforming a hollow, convex cube into a concave... >>>>>>>>>> hexahedron?... for the purposes of gaining access to what was the interior, >>>>>>>>>> but that seems to me just a very esoteric and wordy way to convey the exact >>>>>>>>>> same thing "opening a box". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do >>>>>>>>>> zo'o >>>>>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>>>> >>>>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>> lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com >>>>> . >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>>> >>>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >>> >>> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o >>> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c2277a268fcc050dbb0791 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Jacob Errington <= nictytan@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
Using {klagau} (= or as I would prefer it {klacpe}) is not quite as vague as the English &quo= t;Call 911!", which could be intended to result in something other tha= n them coming. I'll discuss this a bit later.

As for dialing num= bers in general, yes, it has to do with pressing some buttons in some order= , but that's very low-level a way to think about it. I suspect most peo= ple operate on a level higher than "pressing buttons in an order"= when calling someone. When I call someone, I'm thinking of a number (a= ctually a group of numbers, but how people group them differs between cultu= res and even intraculturally) that I identify with the callee. That being s= aid, and disregarding this number grouping problem, we can just use {la'= ;e li} to get to the person or institution associated with the number. Afte= r all, that is the very purpose of la'e.

Using {li} can lead to = some abuse, as we must evaluate the expression thereafter. Therefore, someo= ne could write {.i ko klacpe la'e li sonono su'i papa} equivalently= to {.i ko klacpe la'e li sopapa}. Furthermore, using {li} lends itself= to problems when we're talking about dialing special numbers such as &= quot;*69" or other numbers involving special characters. Therefore, th= is suggests that {me'o} is indeed more appropriate, since it is the com= monly used way to refer to a character string as such, rather than as the i= nterpretation thereof. (The latter case beijikca)ng handled by {li} as show= n above.) Therefore one should write {.i ko klacpe la'e me'o sopapa= }.

Still, there's the issue of {klacpe} not being adequately vag= ue to translate the English. Of course, we might just not care about vaguen= ess here, and I for one would most often be content with just saying {.i ko= klacpe la'e me'o sopapa} when emergencies occur. However, the focu= s of the English is not so much on the summoning of the police or emergency= services, but rather on contacting them, the result of which is left to co= ntext or is unimportant. For this, I have no objections to {jorne}. Althoug= h it does seem metaphorical at first, we can see that the physical case is = really just a special case of the so-called metaphorical one. As such, the = reading I have of the definition of {jorne} is "jorne =3D x1 is in con= tact with/connected to x2 by x3." Gismu should be broad, and it would = thus feel unlojbanic to me for us to arbitrarily restrict jorne to physical= cases only, especially in the face of having no other adequate way of expr= essing the nonphysical cases.

All in all, I would write {.i ko jorne= la'e me'o sopapa}.

=C2=A0
=C2=A0 What's wrong with "ko fonta'a la'e me'o sopapa= "?=C2=A0 After all, don't you really at base =C2=A0want to use the= phone to talk to them (or at the very least, inform them of your existence= )?



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--g= ejyspa



On 10 September 2014 = 16:05, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;pa= dding-left:1ex">
{ri} can be argued to grab {di'u}= there, since it begins after {la'e di'u}, is closed, and cannot be= repeated to retrieve the same referent.

mi'e la latro'= ;a mu'o

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gm= ail.com> wrote:
What do you think ri refers to in my statement? Because = the intended referent was {la'edi'u}.


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gm= ail.com> wrote:
.ienai


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <= gleki.is.my= .name@gmail.com> wrote:
= zo ra enai zo ri

2014-09-10 18:08 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.= com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:56 AM, = Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
ko jorne la'e li 911

.i na nelci lonu do pilno zo jorne la'e= di'u .iku'i radji'i.ei lodu'u ri mapti
<= div>=C2=A0
i zo akty= gau cu su'oroi mapti
2014-09-10 17:51 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jones <ey= eonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 7:= 38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> = wrote:
jorne
???
=C2=A0
=
2014-09-10 17:36 GMT+04:00 Jonathan Jo= nes <eyeonus@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Pierre Abbat &l= t;phma@bezitopo.org<= /a>> wrote:
The missing concept includes opening a file, accessing a webpage, opening a=
cupboard, opening a book, or accessing a memory location. Opening a cupboar= d
is "kargau", but that's what you do to the door; I'm talk= ing about what you do
to the cupboard. Any suggestions?
=C2=A0
I can't think of anything better than that, honestly. Is there any= language which uses a word that means something other than "open"= ;? Can you express the concept you're talking about in any language tha= t you know, in a dictionary definition way, as opposed to the list of examp= les you gave?

Going way off the dee= p end, the act of opening a, say, cardboard box is basically transforming a= hollow, convex cube into a concave... hexahedron?... for the purposes of g= aining access to what was the interior, but that seems to me just a very es= oteric and wordy way to convey the exact same thing "opening a box&quo= t;.

--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo piln= o be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Lu= ke, I am your father. :D )

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l= uk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. = :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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