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[2a00:1450:4010:c04::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id oi7si1457584lbb.1.2015.01.11.14.08.42 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 11 Jan 2015 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c04::22c; Received: by mail-lb0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id z12so15110113lbi.3 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.188.201 with SMTP id gc9mr33729294lbc.6.1421014122588; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.139.71 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jan 2015 14:08:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Stela Selckiku Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 17:08:12 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Songs and poetry in Lojban To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c37366ff6f71050c67a1ae X-Original-Sender: selckiku@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of selckiku@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mail=selckiku@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.8 X-Spam_score_int: 8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:23 PM, wrote: > Hi! > fi'i sai! (Welcome!!) [...] Content analysis details: (0.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 2.7 DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL RBL: Envelope sender listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org [listed in googlegroups.com.rhsbl.ahbl.org. IN] [A] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.212.189 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 T_HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (selckiku[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid 0.0 T_FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders Content-Length: 7877 --001a11c37366ff6f71050c67a1ae Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:23 PM, wrote: > Hi! > fi'i sai! (Welcome!!) > > Lojban seems to have a lot of short words, resulting in very many > syllables needed for rather simple sentences. > This is a matter of perspective. Lojban is simply a very very very weird language. When translating into Lojban from a very different language like English (for instance) it can thus sometimes be difficult to say something concisely or in a way that doesn't feel awkward. But the same is also true in reverse-- for instance it's famously difficult to translate into English sentences from Lojban that contain both a command and a question, like the infamous "ko mo" (Make it so that you have some quality, what is that quality?!? or something) or like (inventing an example) "ko klama fo lo drata mu'i ma" (You must go (there) by a different route, and also, why are you going (there), or, why is that? gosh it really is hard to translate :/) > It also seems heavy on consonants, while vowels are arguably more > important when singing. > This is a matter of style. There's two levels of stylistic choice at which the current consonant-heavy sound of Lojban is constructed (that come to my mind at the moment, anyway). First, there's the choice to leave out buffer vowels. You can say a buffer vowel between EVERY consonant cluster if you want, which can make it almost Polynesian in voweliness. Secondly, there's also the choice to prefer shorter versions of lujvo over ones with fewer clusters, for instance we usually say "ninpre" for newbie but we could prefer "ni'opre" which has a simpler cluster at the expense of one more syllable. That said, I quite enjoy the clustery sound of today's Lojban. It's better for some styles of singing than others. I think Lojban rap sounds cool, to me the consonantiness gives a pleasant complexity to dense phrases. But who can say really, it's a matter of taste. > Do any of you have any experience in making music or poetry in Lojban and > would you mind sharing your thoughts about how well suited Lojban is this? > I write a little song in Lojban almost every day. I can't say my little songs are great works of art, but they're not meant as that, just to entertain myself and express myself. To me Lojban is a beautiful place to play. It's so delicate and living and yet so defined and precise, like Calder's mobiles. But it's a matter of taste. Taste it and see how you like it. It's not a good language if you expect very many people to understand you, of course. But I'm here, and I'll be happy to hear anything you come up with. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o mristepli -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c37366ff6f71050c67a1ae Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 12:23 PM, <eriknatanaelgustafs= son@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi!

fi'i sai!
(Welcome!!)=

=C2=A0

=C2= =A0Lojban seems to have a lot of short words, resulting in very many syllab= les needed for rather simple sentences.


This= is a matter of perspective. Lojban is simply a very very very weird langua= ge. When translating into Lojban from a very different language like Englis= h (for instance) it can thus sometimes be difficult to say something concis= ely or in a way that doesn't feel awkward. But the same is also true in= reverse-- for instance it's famously difficult to translate into Engli= sh sentences from Lojban that contain both a command and a question, like t= he infamous "ko mo" (Make it so that you have some quality, what = is that quality?!? or something) or like (inventing an example) "ko kl= ama fo lo drata mu'i ma" (You must go (there) by a different route= , and also, why are you going (there), or, why is that? gosh it really is h= ard to translate :/)

=C2=A0
It also seems heavy on consonants, while vowels are arguably = more important when singing.


This is a matt= er of style. There's two levels of stylistic choice at which the curren= t consonant-heavy sound of Lojban is constructed (that come to my mind at t= he moment, anyway). First, there's the choice to leave out buffer vowel= s. You can say a buffer vowel between EVERY consonant cluster if you want, = which can make it almost Polynesian in voweliness. Secondly, there's al= so the choice to prefer shorter versions of lujvo over ones with fewer clus= ters, for instance we usually say "ninpre" for newbie but we coul= d prefer "ni'opre" which has a simpler cluster at the expense= of one more syllable.

That said, I quite enjoy the clustery sound = of today's Lojban. It's better for some styles of singing than othe= rs. I think Lojban rap sounds cool, to me the consonantiness gives a pleasa= nt complexity to dense phrases. But who can say really, it's a matter o= f taste.

=C2=A0
Do any of you have any experience in making music or poetry in Lojban and= would you mind sharing your thoughts about how well suited Lojban is this?=


I write a little song in Lojban almost = every day. I can't say my little songs are great works of art, but they= 're not meant as that, just to entertain myself and express myself. To = me Lojban is a beautiful place to play. It's so delicate and living and= yet so defined and precise, like Calder's mobiles.

But it'= s a matter of taste. Taste it and see how you like it.

It's not= a good language if you expect very many people to understand you, of cours= e. But I'm here, and I'll be happy to hear anything you come up wit= h.


mi'e la stela selckiku

mu'o mristepli
=C2=A0

--
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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