Received: from mail-qc0-f192.google.com ([209.85.216.192]:33305) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Ycmm5-0005AN-Ak for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:23:39 -0700 Received: by qcvp6 with SMTP id p6sf1850635qcv.0 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:23:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=from:to:subject:thread-topic:thread-index:date:message-id :references:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language :content-type:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=opT0DZBycMHTh8j8jIuHumlxhlZ2u6qA8AsnGxQ6JBw=; b=APdakLncKckJKqru4KpkeODGjtY8Jo1oVvZ0KGVZC+9Z8ezfIrjrW6wHG5SEF2NwPI XAD6Pz42XpbpdOkgx3nMKtPjh5+gZJbt10RBizOGlqNpJVsJ7Jx7QZ/nV141D4vjPjBJ lrrmkB79oZq63dPo8GWhatdZXeOcEPhq1iQl4EF9ogI/XjXTDy1zCi82G9fug13Yrw62 P/RfqYvTlUKWEnVM2IUUhetrDEOObqeKxzl+wmCvBwhcO6aykY32KHlhNpKYpL11f3s0 v4gaQAcNlllaDcy/3yFcPN+2vg71jsy9X55Vk39/JaygMoL1iSdUMo5o6OrkgC5Pf9XV JGtw== X-Received: by 10.140.98.201 with SMTP id o67mr532091qge.33.1427772207359; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.39.17 with SMTP id u17ls2546111qgu.3.gmail; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:23:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.27.52 with SMTP id d40mr150968yha.13.1427772206696; Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0064.outbound.protection.outlook.com. [157.56.110.64]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z4si2107717qcf.0.2015.03.30.20.23.26 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 157.56.110.64 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.110.64; Received: from BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.141.90.16) by BL2PR01MB372.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.141.90.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.118.21; Tue, 31 Mar 2015 03:23:25 +0000 Received: from BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.141.90.16]) by BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.141.90.16]) with mapi id 15.01.0118.022; Tue, 31 Mar 2015 03:23:25 +0000 From: Timothy Lawrence To: "lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com" Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o" Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o" Thread-Index: AQHQat+qm/ib+szI20KrDD6eDeuwu500+2gAgAAP+ICAAN+3xQ== Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 03:23:24 +0000 Message-ID: <1427772204090.97320@connect.qut.edu.au> References: <1427716991889.33634@connect.qut.edu.au> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-AU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [59.167.216.69] x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BL2PR01MB372; x-forefront-antispam-report: BMV:1;SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10009020)(377424004)(377454003)(164054003)(24454002)(117636001)(86362001)(102836002)(15975445007)(2900100001)(74482002)(19580405001)(88552001)(2501003)(2950100001)(14971765001)(19625215002)(92566002)(15188155005)(16799955002)(46102003)(77096005)(19580395003)(2656002)(16297215004)(19617315012)(107886001)(110136001)(40100003)(122556002)(76176999)(62966003)(54356999)(66066001)(19627405001)(77156002)(87936001)(106116001)(15395725005)(50986999)(16236675004)(2351001)(7059030)(19623215001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;SCL:1;SRVR:BL2PR01MB372;H:BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com;FPR:;SPF:None;MLV:sfv;LANG:en; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(5002010)(5005006);SRVR:BL2PR01MB372;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BL2PR01MB372; x-forefront-prvs: 0532BF6DC2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_142777220409097320connectquteduau_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: connect.qut.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Mar 2015 03:23:24.8025 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: dc0b52a3-68c5-44f7-881d-9383d8850b96 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL2PR01MB372 X-Original-Sender: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 157.56.110.64 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 13854 --_000_142777220409097320connectquteduau_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks very much, that all makes sense :) Perhaps the Level 0 Brochure should be updated as its suggested "joke" and = "note" appear to be widely pronounced as that diphthong, which led to my co= nfusion. ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com = on behalf of Michael Turniansky Sent: Monday, 30 March 2015 11:51 PM To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o" Timothy, I understand you are Australian. if the link you provided is inde= ed how you pronounce "on", then it will probably be confused with the lojba= n "a". It's closer to how that same website pronounces "north". It should= be basically be around either here: or here or in-between (always rounded lips) whereas a hangs around either here or here or in-between always with lips unrounded. --gejyspa On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: You are right. Maybe this will also help you: http://mw.lojban.org/images/b/b1/Lojban_interactive.swf 2015-03-30 15:03 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence >: How is the letter "o" pronounced in Lojban? Is it the monophthong "o", as i= n English "on"? Is = it the diphthong "ow", as in English "own"? (It's hard to describe sounds in writing so I lin= ked to spoken audio samples) I ask because the pronunciation guide of the "Level 0 Booklet" seems to be = indicating it is the latter, based on how I think "joke" and "note" are pro= nounced: http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure-utf/phonol.html However, from the same page: "Lojban has diphthongs as well, but these are = always represented by the two vowels that combine to form them." I presumed the intent behind Lojban's phonetic spelling was that each lette= r represents a pure vowel sound and I noted that the pronunciation of "Lojb= an" on its Wiki article seems to indicate the pronunciation might be the fo= rmer monophthong: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Jbo-lo= jban.ogg Thus I've been presuming "o" in Lojban would be pronounced as in English "o= n" and thus "ou" would be the Lojbanic diphthong to represent "ow" as in En= glish "own". Is this correct? Thanks, Timothy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_142777220409097320connectquteduau_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks very much, that all makes sense :)

Perhaps the Level 0 Brochure should be updated as its suggested&nbs= p;"joke" and "note" appear to be widely pronounced= as that diphthong, which led to my confusion.


From: lojban-beginners@goog= legroups.com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael= Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2015 11:51 PM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o"
 
Timothy, I understand you are Australian.  if the lin= k you provided is indeed how you pronounce "on", then it will pro= bably be confused with the lojban "a".  It's closer to how t= hat same website pronounces "north".  It should be basically= be around either here: or here or in-between=  (always rounded lips) whereas a hangs around either here or here or in-b= etween always with lips unrounded.

             --gejyspa


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Gleki Arxokuna = <gleki.i= s.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
You are right. Maybe this will also help you:

2015-03-30 15:03 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence = <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>:
How is the letter "o" pronounced in Lojban? Is it the monophthong= "o", as in English "on"? Is it the d= iphthong "ow", as in English "own"? (It's hard to describe sounds in writing so I linked to spoken audio sampl= es)

I ask because the pronunciation guide of the "Level 0 Booklet&quo= t; seems to be indicating it is the latter, based on how I think "joke= " and "note" are pronounced: http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure-utf/phonol.html
However, from the same page: "Lojban has diphthongs as well, but these= are always represented by the two vowels that combine to form them."<= br>
I presumed the intent behind Lojban's phonetic spelling was that each lette= r represents a pure vowel sound and I noted that the pronunciation of "= ;Lojban" on its Wiki article seems to indicate the pronunciation might= be the former monophthong: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Jbo-lojban.ogg =

Thus I've been presuming "o" in Lojban would be pronounced as in = English "on" and thus "ou" would be the Lojbanic diphth= ong to represent "ow" as in English "own". Is this corr= ect?

Thanks,

Timothy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban= -beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--_000_142777220409097320connectquteduau_--