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[2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p9si16683wiz.3.2015.04.20.16.18.06 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::235; Received: by mail-wi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id di4so2055458wid.0 for ; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:18:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.83.105 with SMTP id p9mr28818318wjy.117.1429571886200; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.27.56.18 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:18:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5534A0C8.6090604@gmail.com> References: <55340DC0.7000106@gmail.com> <5534A0C8.6090604@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:18:06 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] What actually are the rules of word formation? From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb04ed6753b9f05143024aa X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 9104 --047d7bb04ed6753b9f05143024aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:46 AM, mezohe wrote: > de'i li 2015-04-20 ti'u li 01:52 la .xorxes. di'e cusku: >> >> >> This rule hasn't been implemented yet. Currently it's just that a glide >> can't follow a diphthong. >> > > It is in the experimental grammar though, and seems to be the only > difference in morphology between official and experimental. > > - diphthong = (a i / a u / e i / o i) !nucleus !glide > + diphthong = (a u !u / (a i / e i / o i) !i) !nucleus > > Was there any opposition to having this in the official grammar, other > than opposition to glides in general not needing a glottal stop? The > change doesn't affect any existing valid parses (or does it?) > It's just a slightly more complicated rule. OK, I'll change it to diphthong = (a i !i / a u !u / e i !i / o i !i) !nucleus just because I don't like rules with indented brackets. > de'i li 2015-04-19 ti'u li 22:19 la mezohe di'e cusku: > >> An initial rafsi is any one of these: >> [...] >> - a zihevla that ends in a vowel syllable with its final vowel replaced >> with y, unless the result breaks up into a string of any other rafsi >> e.g. ka,'or,ty a,sny >> > > Firstly the final syllable can only have a vowel, not a diphthong, and > secondly, in the current grammar, it can't start with a glide, only a > consonant. (Is there a reason for that second restriction?) I don't remember, the grammar of glides has been unstable, so maybe there was a reason at some point. I think "iy" and "uy" used to be "reserved for future use". I'll change it to: stressed-fuhivla-rafsi <- fuhivla-head stressed-syllable !h onset y fuhivla-rafsi <- &unstressed-syllable fuhivla-head !h onset y h? mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bb04ed6753b9f05143024aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:46 AM, mezohe <wow.jvs@gmail.com> wrote:
de'i li 2015-04-20 ti'u li 01:52 l= a .xorxes. di'e cusku:

This rule hasn't been implemented yet. Currently it's just that a g= lide
can't follow a diphthong.

 It is in the experimental grammar though, and seems to be the only differen= ce in morphology between official and experimental.

- diphthong =3D (a i / a u / e i / o i) !nucleus !glide
+ diphthong =3D (a u !u / (a i / e i / o i) !i) !nucleus

Was there any opposition to having this in the official grammar, other than= opposition to glides in general not needing a glottal stop? The
change doesn't affect any existing valid parses (or does it?)

It's just a slightly more complicated rule. = OK, I'll change it to =C2=A0

=C2=A0diphthong = =3D (a i !i / a u !u / e i !i / o i !i) !nucleus

just because I don't like rules with indented brackets.

de'i li 2015-04-19 ti'u li 22:19 la mezohe di'e cusku:
An initial rafsi is any one of these:
 [...]
- a zihevla that ends in a vowel syllable with its final vowel replaced
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with y, unless the result breaks up into a string of any other= rafsi
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e.g. ka,'or,ty=C2=A0 a,sny

Firstly the final syllable can only have a vowel, not a diphthong, and seco= ndly, in the current grammar, it can't start with a glide, only a conso= nant. (Is there a reason for that second restriction?)
I don't remember, the grammar of glides has been unstable, = so maybe there was a reason at some point. I think "iy" and "= ;uy" used to be "reserved for future use". I'll change i= t to:

s= tressed-fuhivla-raf= si <-=C2=A0fuhivla-head stressed-syllable !h onset y=C2=A0

fuhivla-rafsi <-=C2=A0&unstr= essed-syllable fuhivla-head !h onset y h?

mu'o mi&#= 39;e xorxes

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