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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 18:52:10 +0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Does the argument limit lead to half-ass words?
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2015-05-16 17:48 GMT+03:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>:

> Sure. But I am not asking about the technical how to deal with it in the
> current structure of the language. Rather, I am wondering about a more
> philosophical question. i.e. Is "bajra" a real concept?
>

Lojban by itself doesn't solve philosophical questions.
It presents options and users can invent more options. Like you may invent
a new verb that will split the reality in a different way.


> Or is it merely a "partial-concept" that exists only because of
> limitations of the grammar?
>

My opinion is that {bajra} and all other verbs are partial concepts.
And this is not just Lojban. It's just that we can't transfer the total
state of the Universe in a limited amount of words.


> And if we were to make it complete, something more like `bajykla`, but
> with even a few more arguments, e.g.
>
>     x1 runs to destination x2 from origin x3 via route x4 at speed x5 on
> surface x6 using limbs x7 with gait x8
>
> How could such long predicates be manageable?


They are manageable in English. At least this is what Fillmor's group
thinks. FrameNet has English predicates with 7 and probably even 9 places.
You learn metaphorics of english prepositions that mark places through
constant usage of English.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
2015-05-16 17:48 GMT+03:00 TR NS <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tr=
ansfire@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">transfire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><div>Sure. But I am not asking about the technical how to=
 deal with it in the current structure of the language. Rather, I am wonder=
ing about a more philosophical question. i.e. Is &quot;bajra&quot; a real c=
oncept?</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Lojban by itself doesn&#39;t =
solve philosophical questions.</div><div>It presents options and users can =
invent more options. Like you may invent a new verb that will split the rea=
lity in a different way.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div> O=
r is it merely a &quot;partial-concept&quot; that exists only because of li=
mitations of the grammar?</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>My opinion =
is that {bajra} and all other verbs are partial concepts.</div><div>And thi=
s is not just Lojban. It&#39;s just that we can&#39;t transfer the total st=
ate of the Universe in a limited amount of words.</div><div><br></div><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-s=
tyle:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div> And if we were to make it complete, some=
thing more like `bajykla`, but with even a few more arguments, e.g.</div><b=
r>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 x1 runs to destination x2 from origin x3 via route x4 at sp=
eed x5 on surface x6 using limbs x7 with gait x8<br><br>How could such long=
 predicates be manageable?</blockquote></div><br>They are manageable in Eng=
lish. At least this is what Fillmor&#39;s group thinks. FrameNet has Englis=
h predicates with 7 and probably even 9 places. You learn metaphorics of en=
glish prepositions that mark places through constant usage of English.</div=
></div>

<p></p>

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