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[2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bc3si99517wib.2.2015.05.23.08.33.22 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 May 2015 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b; Received: by mail-wg0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id z8so41150062wge.0 for ; Sat, 23 May 2015 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.231.41 with SMTP id td9mr16870769wic.69.1432395202308; Sat, 23 May 2015 08:33:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.221.167 with HTTP; Sat, 23 May 2015 08:33:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <99ec7940-1442-4d76-b4e2-e372259af605@googlegroups.com> References: <3769eeda-b171-4f23-a4a7-ecc9368b8ff8@googlegroups.com> <94879cf6-f8ca-4f24-b1cc-61d5c8c7ecd0@googlegroups.com> <99ec7940-1442-4d76-b4e2-e372259af605@googlegroups.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 18:33:01 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Talking about a color To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134c5cc362ebe0516c17f23 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 9336 --001a1134c5cc362ebe0516c17f23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2015-05-23 18:08 GMT+03:00 TR NS : > > > On Friday, May 22, 2015 at 5:00:03 PM UTC-4, xorxes wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Gleki Arxokuna >> wrote: >>> >>> 2015-05-22 5:59 GMT+03:00 TR NS : >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 4:25:09 PM UTC-4, xorxes wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Is the color green green? I would say it has to be. >>>>> >>>>> If it is, then "lo crino" is perfectly fine. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I thought that would mean "the-green-thing". >>>> >>> >>> or "those, which are green". >>> >> >> Yes, the one(s) that are green. So when the color green is green, it can >> be referred to as "lo crino". >> > > To me, it doesn't make sense for green to have the property green. > Lojban doesn't delve into philosophical issues of properties vs. objects (in philosophical sense). One can construe it that way and listeners will sometimes take your > meaning, of course, but I'm not sure it is technically accurate. But I > admit it's a tricky question. Nonetheless, if somewhere says to me out of > the blue, > > mi trajynei lo crino > > I wouldn't think they are saying green-the-color is their favorite, but > rather "I favor the green stuff". And I'd probably be looking around for > something green. It occurs to me though that trajynei might provide a > simple solution itself: > > mi trajynei lo crino lo se skari > I favor green among colors. > > This is very close to your: > > mi trajynei lo crino se skari > > But lacks the use of metaphor, so is more exact in meaning. Correct? > I would agree that indeed a more precise solution like what xorxes said. I think "noun + adjective" in "color green" is misleading here. Or even more correctly "color" is a word taking adjectives to construct special meanings. What is "liking color green" if not liking objects that have this color. If you have read the well-known story by Borges you will remember that by such object you may assume all green objects in the Universe considered as one huge object. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a1134c5cc362ebe0516c17f23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-05-23 18:08 GMT+03:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>= :


On Friday, May= 22, 2015 at 5:00:03 PM UTC-4, xorxes wrote:


On Fri, M= ay 22, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
2015-05-22 5:59 GMT+03:00 TR NS <tran...@gmail.com>:
On Tuesday, May 19, 2015 at 4:25:09 PM UTC-4, xorxes wrote:<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border= -left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Is the color green green? I would say it h= as to be.

If it is, then "lo crino" is p= erfectly fine.

I thought that would mean "the-green-thing".

or =C2=A0"those, which are green&quo= t;.

Yes, the one(s)= that are green.=C2=A0 So when the color green is green, it can be referred= to as "lo crino".

To me, it doesn't make sense for green to have the pro= perty green.

Lojban doesn't= delve into philosophical issues of properties vs. objects (in philosophica= l sense).

One can construe it that way and listeners will sometimes take you= r meaning, of course, but I'm not sure it is technically accurate. But = I admit it's a tricky question. Nonetheless, if somewhere says to me ou= t of the blue,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0= mi trajynei lo crino

I wouldn't thi= nk they are saying green-the-color is their favorite, but rather "I fa= vor the green stuff". And I'd probably be looking around for somet= hing green. It occurs to me though that trajynei might provide a simple sol= ution itself:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<= /span>mi trajynei lo crino lo se skari
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I favor = green among colors.

This is very close to your:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0mi trajynei=C2=A0lo crino se skar= i

But lacks the use of metaphor, so is more exact = in meaning. Correct?

I would ag= ree that indeed a more precise solution like what xorxes said.
I = think "noun + adjective" in "color green" is misleading= here. Or even more correctly "color" is a word taking adjectives= to construct special meanings. What is "liking color green" if n= ot liking objects that have this color.
If you have read the well= -known story by Borges you will remember that by such obje= ct you may assume all green objects in the Universe considered as one huge = object.


<= div dir=3D"ltr">


<= div class=3D"h5">

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