Received: from mail-pa0-f55.google.com ([209.85.220.55]:32898) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7egG-0000p8-T4 for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:01:20 -0700 Received: by pabli10 with SMTP id li10sf8282262pab.0 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:01:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0CKX5q3m1LPDWoc9g7IniG/FYtTMSpJRbLyE8XjrqCc=; b=V6sm2k1dHkixYr2uCycnVSUfDFhdHYqnSs4OGBGdEg4vsO2yJeMqEL5pfa2mudF4bN bf+C9QrXtqDRY0Yypu1litSrJHOX83mTWl37VQ3FVTpaichMnH/zXpP210giEHt6aSU8 iN1vlNnTYMWydgKZHvAV4JimjHfwUvk+j6nWa+adqHoaVKA360Uyg+IxAh7QnscaIhsZ qQ44vKcBW4H2dxZrOMq+6vmtAaHAZizd9mLgSrEy7PU+p3zUZRonguB6ahHgh3ZEyaeF dxB1IxHnC92jCLh63tqQsOi67iIRCPJalMsCLJiLxgrK/iEFrqRHeZbeAmeJXL9B8n1r /Vlg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0CKX5q3m1LPDWoc9g7IniG/FYtTMSpJRbLyE8XjrqCc=; b=KY5rPAFgCR05Se2hJjLcZLGwQHf1w3tZqsoDVEGYHg8KAVlOjx7+x4r5GtQbujG0sg CEKNJ6x45lH/y/3cDe8PBmlgMXXN3Bphn04XQKiPgh3h+jkbGrWy1DR/IeEsABWKbVYa O1NkOrxOS7kM4qbWQxzqxeqCSmlpGkDNrLMIsn6oPn0WQPNbQslvW9Z1iFz4vo9eEpqq gkehjQlhhAoTSQlK+e4yBTnU3lN7C+KafU+cX39jgqyautgq444dCQHS3MRnUGajSgVG igmWDbgAHSOyMC8J+/KSC2eFeGJFa8WsKBe5hMq4gJZQI8u4EzD7DBssIA4wck0BMPPq ytTg== X-Received: by 10.140.38.180 with SMTP id t49mr403224qgt.9.1435129263111; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:01:03 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.30.119 with SMTP id c110ls573012qgc.91.gmail; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.105.10 with SMTP id b10mr557319qgf.26.1435129262680; Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2015 00:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Erik Natanael Gustafsson To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <9a559350-5536-4ea8-8708-73a06e5c8531@googlegroups.com> <9a42afbb-df26-455f-b62c-d89181cad0be@googlegroups.com> <28474f71-596c-4000-8f63-cb431fa47d5b@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Some questions after reading la .teris. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1176_209592065.1435129262295" X-Original-Sender: eriknatanaelgustafsson@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_bar: --- Content-Length: 6932 ------=_Part_1176_209592065.1435129262295 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1177_740655375.1435129262296" ------=_Part_1177_740655375.1435129262296 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 12:57:35 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Erik Natanael Gustafsson < > eriknatanae...@gmail.com > wrote: > >> On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 12:08:56 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote: > > > >> I think that's mostly a matter of register. "I am of the opinion that >>> ..." is way too formal for something like that. In English you might >>> express an opinion by saying "I think that ...". >>> >> Yes it's too formal, but I wanted to clearly distinguish the different >> senses of "to think". "To think" has so many different meanings that it >> feels almost meaningless when used in a definition. >> > > But "think that ...", i.e. when the object is a proposition, is pretty > much always "jinvi". Other "think"s are usually "pensi". > But couldn't "think that" just as well be sruma, krici or even smadi depending on context? > > > >> I guess the question is, how would I in Lojban distinguish between an >> opinion that is a belief concerning something which is true or false and an >> opinion that is a subjective view/taste? >> > > "jinvi" for the first one. For the second, I would need an example, but I > suppose you are thinking of "by standard" places, as in "ta melbi mi", > "that's beautiful to me"? > I'm sorry, I'm still having trouble seeing "opinion" used for objective contexts, but I'm trying to understand. I'll try to come up with clear examples of what I mean: Objective/true-false unsure statement: "I think Stockholm is a city, but I'm not sure." (where think can be replaced by believe) Subjective statement: "I think Stockholm is a dreadful city." I would use krici or similar for the first and jinvi for the second. Or is there another way to state facts with uncertainty that is appropriate for the first example? di'ai co'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. 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On Wednesday, June 24, 2015 at 12:57:35 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote:


On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Erik Natanael Gusta= fsson <eriknatanae...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, June 23, 2015 at 12:08:56 AM UTC+2, xorxes wrote:
 
I think that's mostly a matter of re= gister. "I am of the opinion that ..." is way too formal for something like= that. In English you might express an opinion by saying "I think that ..."= .
Yes it's too formal, but = I wanted to clearly distinguish the different senses of "to think". "To thi= nk" has so many different meanings that it feels almost meaningless when us= ed in a definition.

But "think th= at ...", i.e. when the object is a proposition, is pretty much always "jinv= i".  Other "think"s are usually "pensi".
But couldn't "think that" just as well be sruma, krici or even = smadi depending on context?

 
I guess the questi= on is, how would I in Lojban distinguish between an opinion that is a belie= f concerning something which is true or false and an opinion that is a subj= ective view/taste? 

"jinvi" for = the first one. For the second, I would need an example, but I suppose you a= re thinking of "by standard" places, as in "ta melbi mi", "that's beautiful= to me"?
I'm sorry, I'm still havi= ng trouble seeing "opinion" used for objective contexts, but I'm trying to = understand. I'll try to come up with clear examples of what I mean:
Obje= ctive/true-false unsure statement: "I think Stockholm is a city, but I'm no= t sure." (where think can be replaced by believe)
Subjective statement: = "I think Stockholm is a dreadful city."
I would use krici or similar for= the first and jinvi for the second. Or is there another way to state facts= with uncertainty that is appropriate for the first example?

di'ai c= o'o

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