Received: from mail-la0-f60.google.com ([209.85.215.60]:33221) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZUuA1-0000Qu-MV for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:12:02 -0700 Received: by labd1 with SMTP id d1sf2373175lab.0 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=HDn3aHQKrdosMkx4KFKZ0RzYX+dMl5O41xM6a8Rp4bc=; b=vi32ykS5CQDi81ixiYQnt9wHzZXS63fy/uu8mtkP9pRi2B+Y7Lh2xBwcYTMp2CWEZZ PLrNGiZtV2wMK1kxXwt1XNGqpvjJxeIaPxmw7qS1SCXkDrBrm8duu7kzeDUsfM+wYyVr rrbsHoEhT9UMMTgBssBZgEx+rK3BlUxcqGW1a25ojNT5AB/FKr3+U+BU2kYANrRxg+bN fUsXtt00qAwsLamrUDKxzz8KgPObgwNMUA2pgU2t+AnhVWVH46Ggbu/XdqAg2by/LYAr eK3LPJpb5tjyBv9qFHhSKp0Abh1VJzeoGAi+GagmICu1twTd8VSRGag66v1TBHndPk74 wCOw== X-Received: by 10.152.184.8 with SMTP id eq8mr18452lac.19.1440670311049; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.9.232 with SMTP id d8ls72330lab.13.gmail; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.170.67 with SMTP id ak3mr987697lbc.6.1440670308821; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ek3si520502wid.1.2015.08.27.03.11.48 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::236; Received: by mail-wi0-x236.google.com with SMTP id gk12so3447753wic.1 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.37.33 with SMTP id v1mr9880033wij.88.1440670308620; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.227.8 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 03:11:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Michael Turniansky Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 06:11:09 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f6476f3fbe1a6051e48318e X-Original-Sender: Mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mturniansky@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 18798 --e89a8f6476f3fbe1a6051e48318e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Timothy Lawrence < timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au> wrote: > Thanks all, > > I like these because they are shorter and memorable: > > - ki'a pei > - xu smudra > > Are these also valid? > > - xu do jimpe > - xu do jimpe di'u > - mi'e lo cilre fi la.lojban. > - xu di'u smudra > > > All except the second, because, once again , like cilre, the second argument of jimpe is am abstraction (a fact datum). You can say "xu do jimpe tu'a di'u" , because what you are really trying to say is "xu do jimpe lo du'u ma kau se cusku mi do". You can also say xu do jimpe fi di'u, but that seems a bit less correct. With {ma xe fanva zoi gy. .gy lo jbobau} couldn't one > technically correctly respond with text in another language that > is also deemed logical? > Well, no, because "jbobau" is defined as referring to lojban, and only loban. The same is true of the base gismu, lojbo. Now, if the word was "lojbau", then yes, you could argue that. Could I just say {ma xe fanva zoi gy. .gy} and the language would > be clear from context? > Yes, you could, but like all contextual stuff, you risk being misunderstood. Certainly had you asked it in "long form" earlier in the conversation (or been talking about lojban, or talking in lojban) you can drop the lo lojbau/la lojban later with little chance of confusion. Hope this helps, --gejyspa > ------------------------------ > *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com < > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of selpa'i > *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 August 2015 5:59 AM > *To:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct > > la'o me. Timothy Lawrence .me cusku di'e: > > A few more questions: > > > > - How does one say "Does that make any sense?" in Lojban? - How does > > one say "How does one say (English) in Lojban?" in Lojban? > > Yet again there are many options... > > {xu smudra} -- "Is [it] semantically correct?" > > {xu do te smuni di'u lo cizra} -- "Do you understand the previous > utterance as having a strange meaning?" > > > And for the second one you can use either of the following: > > {ma xe fanva zoi gy. .gy lo jbobau} -- "What's the translation > result of into Lojban?" > > {ma noi lojbo cu smudu'i zoi gy. .gy [gi'e lojbo]} -- "What > Lojban expression has the same meaning as ?" > > I like the second one because it doesn't involve an agent (fanva1). The > first one is the old-school way. > > mi'e la selpa'i mu'o > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com < > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael Turniansky < > mturniansky@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 August 2015 6:13 AM > *To:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct > > >> >> >> And for the second one you can use either of the following: >> >> {ma xe fanva zoi gy. .gy lo jbobau} -- "What's the translation >> result of into Lojban?" >> >> {ma noi lojbo cu smudu'i zoi gy. .gy [gi'e lojbo]} -- "What >> Lojban expression has the same meaning as ?" >> >> I like the second one because it doesn't involve an agent (fanva1). The >> first one is the old-school way >> > > (And since I am old school, that's the one I suggested ;-) > --gejyspa > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com < > lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael Turniansky < > mturniansky@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 26 August 2015 5:45 AM > *To:* lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct > > > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Timothy Lawrence < > timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au> wrote: > > >> A few more questions: >> >> - How does one say "Does that make any sense?" in Lojban? >> > > Well, "xu di'u se smuni lo seldji be mi" means "does that last > utterance mean what I wanted"? Or you could try "ki'a pei" ("are you > confused by what I said?") > > > - How does one say "How does one say (English) in Lojban?" in Lojban? >> > > ma xe fanva zoi gy (put English here) gy la lojban ("what is a translation > of ____ in lojban?") > > --gejyspa > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --e89a8f6476f3fbe1a6051e48318e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Timothy Lawrence <= ;t= imothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au> wrote:
Thanks all,

I like these because they are shorter and memorable:
  • ki'a pei
  • xu smudra
Are these also valid?
  • xu= do=C2=A0jimpe
  • xu do jimpe d= i'u
  • mi'e lo cilre fi la.lojban.
  • xu di'u smudr= a


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 All except the second, because, =C2=A0once again =C2=A0, like ci= lre, the second argument of jimpe is am abstraction (a fact datum).=C2=A0 Y= ou can say "xu do jimpe tu'a di'u" , because what you are= really trying to say is "xu do jimpe lo du'u ma kau se cusku mi d= o". You can also say xu do jimpe fi di'u, but that seems a bit les= s =C2=A0correct.

With=C2=A0= {ma xe fanva zo= i gy. <English> .gy lo jbobau} couldn't one te= chnically=C2=A0correctly respond with text in another language that is=C2= =A0also=C2=A0deemed logical?

=C2=A0 Well, no, =C2=A0because "jbobau" is = defined as referring to lojban, and only loban.=C2=A0 The same is true of t= he base gismu, lojbo.=C2=A0 Now, if the word was "lojbau", then y= es, you could argue that.



Could I just say=C2=A0{ma xe fanva zoi gy. <English&= gt; .gy} and the language would be clear from context?=

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 Yes, you could, but like all contextual stuff, you risk being mi= sunderstood.=C2=A0 Certainly had you asked it in "long form" earl= ier in the conversation (or been talking about lojban, or talking in lojban= ) you can drop the lo lojbau/la lojban later with little chance of confusio= n.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Hope this helps,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa
From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups= .com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of selpa'i= <seladwa@gmx.de= >
Sent: Wednesday, 26 August 2015 5:59 AM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct
=C2=A0
la'o me. Timothy Lawrence .me cusku di'e= :
= > A few more questions:
>
> - How does one say "Does that make any sense?" in Lojban? - = How does
> one say "How does one say (English) in Lojban?" in Lojban?
Yet again there are many options...

{xu smudra} -- "Is [it] semantically correct?"

{xu do te smuni di'u lo cizra} -- "Do you understand the previous<= br> utterance as having a strange meaning?"


 And for the second one you can use either of the following:

{ma xe fanva zoi gy. <English> .gy lo jbobau} -- "What's the= translation
result of <English> into Lojban?"

{ma noi lojbo cu smudu'i zoi gy. <English> .gy [gi'e lojbo]} = -- "What
Lojban expression has the same meaning as <English>?"

I like the second one because it doesn't involve an agent (fanva1). The=
first one is the old-school way.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o


From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com <lojban-b= eginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com= >
Sent: Wednesday, 26 August 2015 6:13 AM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct
=C2=A0


And for the second one you can use either of the following:

{ma xe fanva zoi gy. <English> .gy lo jbobau} -- "What's the= translation result of <English> into Lojban?"

{ma noi lojbo cu smudu'i zoi gy. <English> .gy [gi'e lojbo]} = -- "What Lojban expression has the same meaning as <English>?&qu= ot;

I like the second one because it doesn't involve an agent (fanva1). The= first one is the old-school way

=C2=A0 (And since I am old school, that's the one I suggested ;-)= =C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa
=C2=A0




From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com <lojban-b= eginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com= >
Sent: Wednesday, 26 August 2015 5:45 AM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Lojban attempt: please correct
=C2=A0


On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:50 PM= , Timothy Lawrence <timothy.lawrence@connect.q= ut.edu.au> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0
A few more questions:

- How does one say "Does that make any sense?" in Lojban?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Well, "xu di'u se smuni lo seldji be mi" me= ans "does that last utterance mean what I wanted"?=C2=A0 Or you c= ould try "ki'a pei" ("are you confused by what I said?&q= uot;)=C2=A0


- How does one say "How does one say (English) in Lojban?" in Loj= ban?

ma xe fanva zoi gy (put English here) gy la lojban ("what is a tr= anslation of ____ in lojban?")
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.=
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Lojban Beginners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--e89a8f6476f3fbe1a6051e48318e--