Received: from mail-yk0-f190.google.com ([209.85.160.190]:34404) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZUvHW-0001y2-Vs for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 04:23:55 -0700 Received: by ykfw73 with SMTP id w73sf4058993ykf.1 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 04:23:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=x_cmae_category:from:to:subject:date:message-id:user-agent :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=eyCoG8FJOVX937Bgrbggxh5vX0bAvdZ17l++v23qnyA=; b=XPJ4U54rpSUCDcZTmMnM58hSE7opRGlAsplbqLUkEla9Az5M/k96Kdt+hUy32HI8Ej bQwPWuyLNAqVeFdDWC5pGAZK/11ySV0u8p7+RnldvT+xLH8i139tuZAbs0kRgGRKnGoe N0jLjkZZ3Yy7miXosaly6k00w590hhUcFGgdkinHG4KDguV2jG+P6MfEH2BDXPAJSuvu Tl/eIa97s4PbXwoTcZ7gln79U9mscTpZqPv/JkCI3b83mscZXxq5jdEcxmnBcfbSbmZD LiCAQVmYuBhLDcjHuDShZKo/x6qYRimhtc8+auG2QJkaf6R3P0buED2DzGDXjFUmvgKh v3ug== X-Received: by 10.50.22.67 with SMTP id b3mr332391igf.1.1440674620729; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 04:23:40 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.4.5 with SMTP id g5ls723496igg.6.canary; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 04:23:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.67.3.40 with SMTP id bt8mr3729123pad.34.1440674619798; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 04:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.hughes.net (smtp.hughes.net. [69.168.97.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a11si705539igv.3.2015.08.27.04.23.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Aug 2015 04:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) client-ip=69.168.97.48; X-Authed-Username: cGhtYUBodWdoZXMubmV0 X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=ZujUdbLG c=1 sm=0 tr=0 a=tu8v4/BYpNWK47pT606GYA==:117 a=tu8v4/BYpNWK47pT606GYA==:17 a=K-v-2zaBAAAA:8 a=JNFw9bs7AAAA:8 a=q45M2OEtf3QA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=uRRa74qj2VoA:10 a=f4Kvf2bueXIfgiGBdAEA:9 a=MGwwhhu1hYdQ55TL:21 a=tsR6UNutrri0fCPK:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Received-SPF: neutral (smtp02.hughes.cmh.synacor.com: 173.95.140.180 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bezitopo.org) Received: from [173.95.140.180] ([173.95.140.180:55002] helo=bezitopo.org) by smtp.hughes.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.49 r(42060/42061)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-SHA) id 45/6C-08210-B33FED55; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 07:23:39 -0400 Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bezitopo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A455870 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 2015 07:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban attempt: please correct Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 07:23:38 -0400 Message-ID: <10009531.POtg5Tx1Z8@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-61-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: <55DD805A.6050208@gmx.de> References: <55DD805A.6050208@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Original-Sender: phma@bezitopo.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) smtp.mailfrom=phma@bezitopo.org Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 1825 On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:01:14 selpa'i wrote: > I don't think {simbi'o} means what you want. {simbi'o} means "x1 > (plural) become mutual in property x2". What's the difference between {simbi'o} and {bixsi'u}? On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 04:12:16 Timothy Lawrence wrote: > Where is the best place to learn about "soi", "vo'a" and "ka"? The jbovlaste > definitions were unhelpful (they each seem more like a reminder than a full > instruction on how to use the word) and the CLL is opaque. {soi} is followed by two sumti and indicates that the sentence remains true when they are exchanged. They don't have to be {vo'a} and {vo'e}, e.g.: la .ludvig. nupre sebau la .karl. soi la .karl. la .ludvig. Louis swore in Charles's language and vice versa. (Louis the German swore in the earliest Old French; Charles swore in Old High German.) {vo'e} can't be used because {la .karl.} is in a tagged, not numbered, place. This doesn't work, though, if you want to exchange selbri. I made up another example to illustrate {vo'a} with {ra'o}: la .djan. klama lo zdani be vo'a pu le nu la .meris. no'a John went to his house before Mary did. (Mary went to John's house.) la .djan. klama lo zdani be vo'a pu le nu la .meris. no'a ra'o John went home before Mary did. (Mary went to her own house.) Pierre -- li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.