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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: Trying my first translation ... a few questions.
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From: selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de>
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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 17:33:09 +0200
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la .xabltos. cu cusku di'e
> So we are currently gathering friends to find Puppy's toys.  My question
> today concerns the connective that I need to use with selbri.  I think
> that I need je in this case, but am not positive.
>
> "Oh, Duck," says Frog. Let's go and look for Puppy's bark."
> .i lu doi datka - sei la pipybafli cu cusku - ma'a kalama je sisku lo ka
> ko'a gercmo li'u

Here you want to connect so-called bridi-tails, not selbri. A bridi tail=20
is a selbri + the sumti and other things that follow it. Using brackets,=20
you want to say {ma'a [klama] AND [sisku lo ka ko'a gercmo]}, but if you=20
use {je} there then you get {[klama] AND [sisku]} and {lo ka ko'a=20
gercmo} falls into both sisku's x2 and klama's x2.

To connect bridi tails you use {gi'e} (every connective has different=20
forms depending on whether you want to connect sumti, selbri,=20
bridi-tails and whether it's forethought or afterthought).

{ma'a klama gi'e sisku lo ka ko'a gercmo}

Having said that, there are two things that still need to be fixed in=20
your sentence.

First, has the {ko'a} been assigned in a previous sentence? More=20
importantly, {ko'a} doesn't go into a {ka} abstraction like that. In=20
{ka} you use {ce'u}, just like you would use {ke'a} in a relative=20
clause. That would be {lo ka ce'u gercmo}, and this means "the property=20
of being someone who barks". Maybe not what you're after, but it could=20
get complicated here, because if the dog is searching for a property,=20
and not for a thing having that property, then you'll end up with a=20
double {ka}: {sisku lo ka ce'u ka ce'u gercmo}.

The other thing is that Frog is trying to motivate Duck to undertake an=20
action. Your sentence however is a statement. You should add {.e'e} or=20
{.e'u} in the beginning.

See:=20
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/BPFK_Section:_Irrealis_Attitudinals#cmavo:_.e.2=
7e_.28UI1.29

Maybe I'd say:

.i =C2=ABlu .e'e doi la datka =E2=80=94sei la pipybanfi cu cusku=E2=80=94 m=
a'a klama gi'e=20
sisku tu'a lo ka gercmo li'u=C2=BB

> I used ma'asince contextually, we have Puppy, Bird, Frog, and Duck, and
> not just Frog and Duck (mi'o).

Good.

> My only other concern was "look for".  Initially, I thought that it
> would be viska, but then I stopped and thought about it some.  About
> what they were really trying to accomplish.  And I came up with sisku,
> and they are searching for something, not necessarily looking at it.

Like with {cirko}, some people use {sisku}'s x2 as a property, so=20
{sisku} means "x1 looks among the referents of x3 for ones that have=20
property x2".

Usually those people then use a different word when they are looking for=20
a concrete object, because then it's about trying to find out what a=20
things location is. Things like {zvasisku} and even {mitysisku} exist=20
for that.

Relatedly, finding an object is {zvafa'i} ("discover where something=20
is"), while "finding out a fact" is just {facki}.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

--=20
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