Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 06:42:54 -0800 (PST)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Terminator for la
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Le samedi 30 janvier 2016 09:31:10 UTC, la .tamar. a =C3=A9crit :
>
> Coi.
>
> I gave up learning lojban a while ago because I didn't have anyone I woul=
d=20
> be able to learn it with, but recently I got some new friends who want to=
=20
> learn. I decided that at the start I would teach them to speak saying eve=
ry=20
> terminator so that we get used to the idea of them being there, however I=
=20
> noticed that it is inconsistent as to whether or not la is terminated by =
ku=20
> or if it has no terminator. For example in la camxes grammar parser addin=
g=20
> a ku to the end of a sumti starting with la generates an error unless you=
=20
> use the experimental grammar version. My question therefore is, is using =
ku=20
> as a terminator experimental? and should I teach them that it is the=20
> terminator for la, or shouldn't I?
>
>
Officially, {la} followed by selbri has an elidable terminator {ku}, but=20
{la} followed by cmevla does not have a terminator. It is because a brivla=
=20
following {la ca selbri} can be included the {la}-structure, while a brivla=
=20
following {la cmevlas} cannot be a part of the {la}-structure.

I recommend using camxes for teaching beginners, not the=20
canxes-experimental that was deteriorated by la gleki. Although I rather=20
welcome improvement of the grammar, most of the ideas of new grammar are=20
not yet discussed by BPFK, and some of the ideas may be not going to be=20
agreed by it. As for actual reading or listening of existing texts in=20
experimental grammar, I prepared some versions of parsers that are suitable=
=20
to them. See the instruction of the versions for detail:
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa

For example,=20

- use maftufa for reading lo se manci te makfa pe la oz:
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/maftufa
http://selpahi.de/oz_plain.html

- use zantufa for reading the new version of {la .teris. ku noi tigra cu=20
stuvi'e lo barda tcadu} or listening my song {lo no valsi}:
http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.11.html
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._ku_noi_tigra_cu_stuvi'e_lo_barda_tca=
du
https://vimeo.com/141602354

- use maltufa for reading the old version of {la teris po'u lo tirxu cu=20
vitke zi'o le barda tcadu} and most of good old texts:
http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/maltufa-1.1.html
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._po'u_lo_tirxu_cu_vitke_zi'o_le_barda=
_tcadu

-use zantufa-cekitaujoibus for reading {ka catra lo verba}:
http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1-cekitaujoibu.html
http://danmo-rozgu.github.io/kacatraloverba.html

mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le samedi 30 janvier 2016 09:31:10 UTC, la .tamar.=
 a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;ma=
rgin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Coi.<br><br>I gave up learning lojban a while ago because I didn&#=
39;t have anyone I would be able to learn it with, but recently I got some =
new friends who want to learn. I decided that at the start I would teach th=
em to speak saying every terminator so that we get used to the idea of them=
 being there, however I noticed that it is inconsistent as to whether or no=
t la is terminated by ku or if it has no terminator. For example in la camx=
es grammar parser adding a ku to the end of a sumti starting with la genera=
tes an error unless you use the experimental grammar version. My question t=
herefore is, is using ku as a terminator experimental? and should I teach t=
hem that it is the terminator for la, or shouldn&#39;t I?<br><br></div></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>Officially, {la} followed by selbri has an eli=
dable terminator {ku}, but {la} followed by cmevla does not have a terminat=
or. It is because a brivla following {la ca selbri} can be included the {la=
}-structure, while a brivla following {la cmevlas} cannot be a part of the =
{la}-structure.</div><div><br></div><div>I recommend using camxes for teach=
ing beginners, not the canxes-experimental that was deteriorated by la glek=
i. Although I rather welcome improvement of the grammar, most of the ideas =
of new grammar are not yet discussed by BPFK, and some of the ideas may be =
not going to be agreed by it. As for actual reading or listening of existin=
g texts in experimental grammar, I prepared some versions of parsers that a=
re suitable to them. See the instruction of the versions for detail:</div><=
div>https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa<br></div><div><br></div><div>For ex=
ample,=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>- use maftufa for reading lo se manci=
 te makfa pe la oz:<br></div><div>https://mw.lojban.org/papri/maftufa<br></=
div><div>http://selpahi.de/oz_plain.html<br></div><div><br></div><div>- use=
 zantufa for reading the new version of {la .teris. ku noi tigra cu stuvi&#=
39;e lo barda tcadu} or listening my song {lo no valsi}:</div><div>http://g=
uskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.11.html<br></div><div>https://mw.loj=
ban.org/papri/la_.teris._ku_noi_tigra_cu_stuvi&#39;e_lo_barda_tcadu<br></di=
v><div>https://vimeo.com/141602354<br></div><div><br></div><div>- use maltu=
fa for reading the old version of {la teris po&#39;u lo tirxu cu vitke zi&#=
39;o le barda tcadu} and most of good old texts:</div><div>http://guskant.g=
ithub.io/gerna_cipra/maltufa-1.1.html<br></div><div>https://mw.lojban.org/p=
apri/la_.teris._po&#39;u_lo_tirxu_cu_vitke_zi&#39;o_le_barda_tcadu<br></div=
><div><br></div><div>-use zantufa-cekitaujoibus for reading {ka catra lo ve=
rba}:</div><div>http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1-cekitaujoibu=
.html<br></div><div>http://danmo-rozgu.github.io/kacatraloverba.html<br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o</div></div>

<p></p>

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