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To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: <9e03ffac-8e53-457b-b6b4-98bf9f6801ac@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <82905720-4d75-4196-9886-cc8c034d9f83@googlegroups.com> References: <82905720-4d75-4196-9886-cc8c034d9f83@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Terminator for la MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_2353_1038528764.1454186634662" X-Original-Sender: tama.austin@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 13104 ------=_Part_2353_1038528764.1454186634662 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2354_359397665.1454186634663" ------=_Part_2354_359397665.1454186634663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks :) On Sunday, 31 January 2016 03:42:55 UTC+13, guskant wrote: > > > > Le samedi 30 janvier 2016 09:31:10 UTC, la .tamar. a =C3=A9crit : >> >> Coi. >> >> I gave up learning lojban a while ago because I didn't have anyone I=20 >> would be able to learn it with, but recently I got some new friends who= =20 >> want to learn. I decided that at the start I would teach them to speak= =20 >> saying every terminator so that we get used to the idea of them being=20 >> there, however I noticed that it is inconsistent as to whether or not la= is=20 >> terminated by ku or if it has no terminator. For example in la camxes=20 >> grammar parser adding a ku to the end of a sumti starting with la genera= tes=20 >> an error unless you use the experimental grammar version. My question=20 >> therefore is, is using ku as a terminator experimental? and should I tea= ch=20 >> them that it is the terminator for la, or shouldn't I? >> >> > Officially, {la} followed by selbri has an elidable terminator {ku}, but= =20 > {la} followed by cmevla does not have a terminator. It is because a brivl= a=20 > following {la ca selbri} can be included the {la}-structure, while a briv= la=20 > following {la cmevlas} cannot be a part of the {la}-structure. > > I recommend using camxes for teaching beginners, not the=20 > canxes-experimental that was deteriorated by la gleki. Although I rather= =20 > welcome improvement of the grammar, most of the ideas of new grammar are= =20 > not yet discussed by BPFK, and some of the ideas may be not going to be= =20 > agreed by it. As for actual reading or listening of existing texts in=20 > experimental grammar, I prepared some versions of parsers that are suitab= le=20 > to them. See the instruction of the versions for detail: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa > > For example,=20 > > - use maftufa for reading lo se manci te makfa pe la oz: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/maftufa > http://selpahi.de/oz_plain.html > > - use zantufa for reading the new version of {la .teris. ku noi tigra cu= =20 > stuvi'e lo barda tcadu} or listening my song {lo no valsi}: > http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1.11.html > > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._ku_noi_tigra_cu_stuvi'e_lo_barda_t= cadu > https://vimeo.com/141602354 > > - use maltufa for reading the old version of {la teris po'u lo tirxu cu= =20 > vitke zi'o le barda tcadu} and most of good old texts: > http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/maltufa-1.1.html > > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/la_.teris._po'u_lo_tirxu_cu_vitke_zi'o_le_bar= da_tcadu > > -use zantufa-cekitaujoibus for reading {ka catra lo verba}: > http://guskant.github.io/gerna_cipra/zantufa-1-cekitaujoibu.html > http://danmo-rozgu.github.io/kacatraloverba.html > > mu'o > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_2354_359397665.1454186634663 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks :)

On Sunday, 31 January 2016 03:42:55 UTC+1= 3, guskant wrote:


Le samedi 30 janvier 2016 09:31:10 UTC, la .tamar. a =C3=A9cri= t=C2=A0:
Coi.
I gave up learning lojban a while ago because I didn't have anyone I = would be able to learn it with, but recently I got some new friends who wan= t to learn. I decided that at the start I would teach them to speak saying = every terminator so that we get used to the idea of them being there, howev= er I noticed that it is inconsistent as to whether or not la is terminated = by ku or if it has no terminator. For example in la camxes grammar parser a= dding a ku to the end of a sumti starting with la generates an error unless= you use the experimental grammar version. My question therefore is, is usi= ng ku as a terminator experimental? and should I teach them that it is the = terminator for la, or shouldn't I?


<= /div>
Officially, {la} followed by selbri has an elidable terminator {k= u}, but {la} followed by cmevla does not have a terminator. It is because a= brivla following {la ca selbri} can be included the {la}-structure, while = a brivla following {la cmevlas} cannot be a part of the {la}-structure.

I recommend using camxes for teaching beginners, not = the canxes-experimental that was deteriorated by la gleki. Although I rathe= r welcome improvement of the grammar, most of the ideas of new grammar are = not yet discussed by BPFK, and some of the ideas may be not going to be agr= eed by it. As for actual reading or listening of existing texts in experime= ntal grammar, I prepared some versions of parsers that are suitable to them= . See the instruction of the versions for detail:

For= example,=C2=A0

- use maftufa for reading lo se ma= nci te makfa pe la oz:
http://selpahi.de/oz_plain.html

- use zantufa for reading the new version of {la .t= eris. ku noi tigra cu stuvi'e lo barda tcadu} or listening my song {lo = no valsi}:
https://vimeo.com/141602354

- use maltufa for reading the old version of {la teri= s po'u lo tirxu cu vitke zi'o le barda tcadu} and most of good old = texts:

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lo= jban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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