Received: from mail-yw0-f192.google.com ([209.85.161.192]:34023) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1b69rJ-0006OR-8K for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 26 May 2016 21:58:56 -0700 Received: by mail-yw0-f192.google.com with SMTP id g66sf32131104ywc.1 for ; Thu, 26 May 2016 21:58:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=sender:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=a7RfhahwGV0u4mscefjKicwBCCVfk6pUcMR38fb1w/E=; b=FpjhT4zsEH2LMDFcq+X0WTwtakffBKvOzWXKXdfeRyYwu1v4wftw8Eq6whfBZ6L72n XXFIqCQiEIj+6xIBoYCqnvCItscPgYh9zOFc3ZrHFasfIhQq11NVkr9C3z2idZ6DK+Cw u8ZPp/tUndANnX9zm6kmtcK+vPbjkapA0hra/cIQ0me2jNFIai7jbPjnIaXXpf96yd44 OifkezwruIIWdleRPi90f+TBvmXm3ID5hnjyuHEgAG33ao3HGga1kBVnL1EJ8RPsbyvf oeP4YyRj4Pp/ifmaDDLdKxIcL1eY0jgyfFkzUt6YVm9F/LyplmCHWgEjd2EAF0Sor9Nf WcvQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=a7RfhahwGV0u4mscefjKicwBCCVfk6pUcMR38fb1w/E=; b=OPNaxRQrVNX5newmA4YMVpG9UAFfZPWvvsE4rU5/ImOCjbL47XsoGrL7srIXBCVqAb T+gw9+BEgKe1li6SCGaKgC74ToSOIikp8JV+kVOQmfUbGK1smaQ+xlk+0BiZRzJt7WeT tK/OmkHNX8iN50FzYO4VHInt9NITi9HHjnlXLT4nIhOOvt1u5TvejMwvm6MjGQ0oHl+N U+aivJOBf1K4y6emu9N8WHQRLgUBLJNRmUdEJONB+R18jN4cUj1xNRXKcMfjaiqSYcvI ABq9l1eU1Bv6xLbUq+WYrhsf3XJWIx7KiXbt9ieQI8i1SR0ZOaeuxEs+o5BduekjZkXO rkRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=a7RfhahwGV0u4mscefjKicwBCCVfk6pUcMR38fb1w/E=; b=Ajk4gaNXWCeG4b8gD5+NwttYVongMYSY75++Lqr4liEdHUcioJmHiifrRxJCP8LiuD iEti7SfakCLYHXd5MMDgiBBTpmrm5MgrBcQPD8Uz06zN6JtzRfPf6CSaduTyNuWyxtpc Iz992z9xw27XzgQdJsZd2Y5N3MHYhktQ+Oh7OO4P0bBZUg0twEhFfQ3quQBrpZELduRQ N07kYQdRAU2xOixCIh4u8OHu3PePkKIQlowD6bgXgqpUfhbJmyxHBPKxQ6yFlihRu5h0 ApUpGAWcYYC3Omu2oiLevHvuujLsGz7jwiLrJyXHGdSSSD/HZx60qEs8lf2AyTl4wTGF PXrQ== Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tK+JvqYqFYf93rilaGm5eU+PuuvFhr4k3HV22yRyDfuEqF9YXcZhnJJu4YBwn1LGA== X-Received: by 10.157.3.117 with SMTP id 108mr192878otv.20.1464325126847; Thu, 26 May 2016 21:58:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.157.37.117 with SMTP id j50ls846598otd.24.gmail; Thu, 26 May 2016 21:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.157.56.116 with SMTP id r49mr192122otd.19.1464325125827; Thu, 26 May 2016 21:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 21:58:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew To: Lojban Beginners Cc: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au Message-Id: <52071987-a65c-49e0-b47d-c24273e61ad7@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <574574C9.6090906@gmail.com>, Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammatical classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_651_6413129.1464325124974" X-Original-Sender: summerfallsaway@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 13075 ------=_Part_651_6413129.1464325124974 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_652_646821367.1464325124975" ------=_Part_652_646821367.1464325124975 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Calling {cmavrza'o} a fu'ivla does seem odd to me too, but the words are=20 clearly "borrowed" from Lojban. {cmavrza'o} =3D {cmavo} + {za'o}. It's not= =20 like {admine} , which is=20 clearly borrowed from the same Latin roots as the English word "administer"= . On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:17:07 PM UTC-7, Timothy Lawrence wrote: > > "cmavrza'o" is a fu'ivla, i.e. a loanword? Does Lojban not have native=20 > terms for its own grammar? > =20 > I am by no means a Lojban expert, but I was presuming the logical=20 > construction would be to combine words with the base "selma'o". > =20 > Perhaps like: > temci (time interval) + selma'o (structure word class) > =3D temselma'o > =3D the class of structure words concerned with time intervals > =3D "ZEhA" (I think?) > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* lojban-b...@googlegroups.com < > lojban-b...@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Andrew < > summerf...@gmail.com > > *Sent:* Thursday, 26 May 2016 7:52 AM > *To:* Lojban Beginners > *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its=20 > grammatical classes=20 > =20 > I don't see this used nearly as often as the all-caps class name, but I= =20 > think properly *lojbo* class names start with *cmavr*. So the lojbanic=20 > version of the class name ZAhO would be {cmavrza'o}. > > See http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/cmavrza'o > > > On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 AM UTC-7, Ilmen wrote:=20 >> >> On 25/05/2016 05:04, Timothy Lawrence wrote: >> >> Yes, but "za'o" can't be used in Lojban for both that word * and* its=20 >> structural class because Lojban has only one definition per word. >> >> >> In particular, how is this answered in Lojban? >> >> >> ma selma'o zo za'o >> >> >> (I hope that's correct Lojban?) >> >> >> And what are the other word classes? >> >> >> In order to talk about cmavo belonging to a particular selmaho in Lojban= ,=20 >> you can either: >> =E2=80=A2 use {lo cmavo be lo se cmavo be zo za'o} (=3D "the cmavo of th= e same=20 >> selmaho as {za'o}), or {lo selma'o dunli be zo za'o} (=3D "the things eq= ual=20 >> to {za'o} in their selmaho"); >> =E2=80=A2 or use the experimenetal cmavo {ma'oi}=20 >> , which belongs to the ZO=20 >> selmaho (thus, same grammatical behavior as {zo}): {lo cmavo be ma'oi= =20 >> za'o} =3D "the cmavo of selmaho ZAhO". >> >> Here's a nice mindmap that classifies selmaho: >> =E2=80=A2 >> https://mind42.com/mindmap/03d7fb74-986c-4418-bb14-2dfb86d21dbc >> >> mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o >> >> --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= =20 > email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to lojban-...@googlegroups.com=20 > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_652_646821367.1464325124975 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Calling {cmavrza'o} a fu'ivla does seem odd to me = too, but the words are clearly "borrowed" from Lojban. {cmavrza&#= 39;o} =3D {cmavo} + {za'o}. It's not like {admine}, which is clearly borrowed from = the same Latin roots as the English word "administer".

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:17:07 PM UTC-7, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

"cmavrza'o" is a fu'ivla, i.e. a loanword? Does Lojb= an not have native terms for its own grammar?
=C2=A0
I am by no means a Lojban expert, but I was presuming the logical construct= ion would be to combine words with the base "selma'o".
=C2=A0
Perhaps like:
temci (time interval) + selma'o (structure word class)
=3D temselma'o
=3D the class of structure words concerned with time intervals
=3D "ZEhA" (I think?)



I don't see this used nearly as often as the all-caps = class name, but I think properly lojbo class names start with cmavr. So the lojbanic version o= f the class name ZAhO would be {cmavrza'o}.

See
http://v= lasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/cmavrza'o


On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 AM UTC-7, Ilmen wrote:
On 25/05/2016 05:04, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

Yes, but "za'o" can't be used=C2=A0= in Lojban for both that word and its structural=C2=A0class because Lojban has only one definition pe= r word.


In particular, how is this answered in Lojban?


ma=C2=A0selma'o zo za'o


(I hope that's correct Lojban?)


And what are the other word classes?


In order to talk about cmavo belonging to a particular selmaho in Lojban, y= ou can either:
=E2=80=A2 use {lo cmavo be lo se cmavo be zo za'o} (=3D "the cmavo= of the same selmaho as {za'o}), or {lo selma'o dunli be zo za'= o} (=3D "the things equal to {za'o} in their selmaho");
=E2=80=A2 or use the experimenetal cmavo {ma'oi}, which belongs to the ZO selmaho (thus, same grammatical be= havior as {zo}):=C2=A0 {lo cmavo be ma'oi za'o} =3D "the cmavo= of selmaho ZAhO".

Here's a nice mindmap that classifies selmaho:
=E2=80=A2 https://mind42.com/mindmap/03d7f= b74-986c-4418-bb14-2dfb86d21dbc

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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