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[2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bc8si323216igb.0.2016.05.27.08.05.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 27 May 2016 08:05:55 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f; Received: by mail-oi0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id b65so175646910oia.1 for ; Fri, 27 May 2016 08:05:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.202.63.214 with SMTP id m205mr8520885oia.84.1464361554801; Fri, 27 May 2016 08:05:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.122.42 with HTTP; Fri, 27 May 2016 08:05:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <52071987-a65c-49e0-b47d-c24273e61ad7@googlegroups.com> References: <574574C9.6090906@gmail.com> <52071987-a65c-49e0-b47d-c24273e61ad7@googlegroups.com> From: Michael Turniansky Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 11:05:15 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammatical classes To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d6da04bf8d40533d43ea0 X-Original-Sender: Mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mturniansky@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 12120 --001a113d6da04bf8d40533d43ea0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable selm'a o isn't a "base", though... it's the lujvo form of se cmavo . "cmavrza'o" is of a class we call "zi'evla" ("free word"), which are lojban short forms that resemble fu'ivla, but come from strictly lojbanic roots. --gejyspa On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:58 AM, Andrew wrote: > Calling {cmavrza'o} a fu'ivla does seem odd to me too, but the words are > clearly "borrowed" from Lojban. {cmavrza'o} =3D {cmavo} + {za'o}. It's no= t > like {admine} , which is > clearly borrowed from the same Latin roots as the English word "administe= r". > > > On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:17:07 PM UTC-7, Timothy Lawrence wrote: >> >> "cmavrza'o" is a fu'ivla, i.e. a loanword? Does Lojban not have native >> terms for its own grammar? >> >> I am by no means a Lojban expert, but I was presuming the logical >> construction would be to combine words with the base "selma'o". >> >> Perhaps like: >> temci (time interval) + selma'o (structure word class) >> =3D temselma'o >> =3D the class of structure words concerned with time intervals >> =3D "ZEhA" (I think?) >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* lojban-b...@googlegroups.com on >> behalf of Andrew >> *Sent:* Thursday, 26 May 2016 7:52 AM >> *To:* Lojban Beginners >> *Subject:* Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its >> grammatical classes >> >> I don't see this used nearly as often as the all-caps class name, but I >> think properly *lojbo* class names start with *cmavr*. So the lojbanic >> version of the class name ZAhO would be {cmavrza'o}. >> >> See http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/cmavrza'o >> >> >> On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 AM UTC-7, Ilmen wrote: >>> >>> On 25/05/2016 05:04, Timothy Lawrence wrote: >>> >>> Yes, but "za'o" can't be used in Lojban for both that word * and* its >>> structural class because Lojban has only one definition per word. >>> >>> >>> In particular, how is this answered in Lojban? >>> >>> >>> ma selma'o zo za'o >>> >>> >>> (I hope that's correct Lojban?) >>> >>> >>> And what are the other word classes? >>> >>> >>> In order to talk about cmavo belonging to a particular selmaho in >>> Lojban, you can either: >>> =E2=80=A2 use {lo cmavo be lo se cmavo be zo za'o} (=3D "the cmavo of t= he same >>> selmaho as {za'o}), or {lo selma'o dunli be zo za'o} (=3D "the things e= qual >>> to {za'o} in their selmaho"); >>> =E2=80=A2 or use the experimenetal cmavo {ma'oi} >>> , which belongs to the ZO >>> selmaho (thus, same grammatical behavior as {zo}): {lo cmavo be ma'oi >>> za'o} =3D "the cmavo of selmaho ZAhO". >>> >>> Here's a nice mindmap that classifies selmaho: >>> =E2=80=A2 >>> https://mind42.com/mindmap/03d7fb74-986c-4418-bb14-2dfb86d21dbc >>> >>> mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Lojban Beginners" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a113d6da04bf8d40533d43ea0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
selm'a o isn't a "base", though... it= 9;s the lujvo form of se cmavo . =C2=A0"cmavrza'o" is of a cl= ass we call "zi'evla" ("free word"), which are lojb= an short forms that resemble fu'ivla, but come from strictly lojbanic r= oots.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Fri, May 27, 20= 16 at 12:58 AM, Andrew <summerfallsaway@gmail.com> w= rote:
Calling {cmavrza&#= 39;o} a fu'ivla does seem odd to me too, but the words are clearly &quo= t;borrowed" from Lojban. {cmavrza'o} =3D {cmavo} + {za'o}. It&= #39;s not like {admine}, which is clearly borrowed from the same Latin ro= ots as the English word "administer".

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:17:07 PM UTC-7, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

"cmavrza'o" is a fu'ivla, i.e. a loanword? Does Lojb= an not have native terms for its own grammar?
=C2=A0
I am by no means a Lojban expert, but I was presuming the logical construct= ion would be to combine words with the base "selma'o".
=C2=A0
Perhaps like:
temci (time interval) + selma'o (structure word class)
=3D temselma'o
=3D the class of structure words concerned with time intervals
=3D "ZEhA" (I think?)


From: lojban-b...@googlegrou= ps.com <lojban-b...@googlegroups.com> on = behalf of Andrew <summerf...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 26 May 2016 7:52 AM
To: Lojban Beginners
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] List of Lojban words for its grammat= ical classes
=C2=A0
I don't see this used nearly as often as the all-caps = class name, but I think properly lojbo class names start with cmavr. So the lojbanic version o= f the class name ZAhO would be {cmavrza'o}.

See http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/cmavrza'o=


On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 2:48:12 AM UTC-7, Ilmen wrote:
On 25/05/2016 05:04, Timothy Lawrence wrote:

Yes, but "za'o" can't be used=C2=A0= in Lojban for both that word and its structural=C2=A0class because Lojban has only one definition pe= r word.


In particular, how is this answered in Lojban?


ma=C2=A0selma'o zo za'o


(I hope that's correct Lojban?)


And what are the other word classes?


In order to talk about cmavo belonging to a particular selmaho in Lojban, y= ou can either:
=E2=80=A2 use {lo cmavo be lo se cmavo be zo za'o} (=3D "the cmavo= of the same selmaho as {za'o}), or {lo selma'o dunli be zo za'= o} (=3D "the things equal to {za'o} in their selmaho");
=E2=80=A2 or use the experimenetal cmavo {ma'oi}, which belongs to the ZO selmaho (thus, same grammatical be= havior as {zo}):=C2=A0 {lo cmavo be ma'oi za'o} =3D "the cmavo= of selmaho ZAhO".

Here's a nice mindmap that classifies selmaho:
=E2=80=A2 https://mind42.com/mindmap/03d7fb74= -986c-4418-bb14-2dfb86d21dbc

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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