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Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2017 15:09:33 +0100
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On 07.01.2017 20:58, r.d.gorbunov@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,

coi

> I would like to say the following: "I see someone talking to you."
>
> As far as I understand,  ".i mi viska le tavla" means "I see a talker"
> or, in other words, "I see someone talking".

The meaning is closer to "I see the talker(s)", "I see the one(s) who=20
talk(s)".

This may seem to imply that you see someone talking, but it actually=20
does not. It is possible to see a person who is talking and not see that=20
they are talking. In general, {viska lo broda} does not entail {viska lo=20
nu broda}. It is the latter, however, that properly expresses your meaning.

    mi viska lo nu su'o da tavla do
    I see the event-of some X talks-to you
    "I see that someone is talking to you."

(btw, {le tavla} for "someone who talks" is slightly off. Instead, {su'o=20
tavla} is more appropriate as it literally means "someone who talks"=20
(one or more things). In the current case, neither is correct, of=20
course, but I felt it was worth pointing out)

> But I want to say a bit
> more. I want to specify that talking is "to you". So, I guess I need to
> use the "be=E2=80=93bei=E2=80=93be'o" construction and I am not sure abou=
t that since
> here https://lojban.github.io/cll/5/7/ this construction is used to
> "extend" one of the gismu from a tanru and I want to extend a sumti.
>
> In general I want to be able to say things like: (1) "I see a man
> reading a book", (2) "The man knows a dog walking from home". Is
> "be=E2=80=93bei=E2=80=93be'o" gives a way to say these sentences or I nee=
d to use
> something else?

You can use {be} to inject (or "extend") into a selbri additional sumti=20
that then become part of the place structure of the newly created selbri.

tavla       : x1 talks to x2 about x3 ...
tavla be do : x1 talks to you about x2 ...

Thus, {lo tavla be do} is an expression that refers to a thing or things=20
who talk to you.

The other sentences you mention would require relative clause, though,=20
because they contain an additional verb (selbri), namely "reading" and=20
"walking". Relative clauses are constructed with {poi} (or {noi}):

    mi viska pa prenu poi ke'a tcidu pa cukta
    I see a person who [the-person] reads a book
    "I see a person who reads a book."

Again this does not mean you see them reading a book, only that you see=20
the person. You may know about them reading a book from other sources,=20
so if you wanted to express that you see them reading a book, you would say=
:

    mi viska lo nu pa prenu cu tcidu pa cukta
    I see the event-of a person [predicate] read a book
    "I see someone reading a book."


~~~mi'e la solpa'i

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