Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 06:39:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: sukender1@gmail.com
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
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 <1529957.C3PuiQt9WT@caracal>
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] The "xr" and "rx" pairs
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Wow. Thanks for the answer. That frightens me, actually! My tongue is=20
absolutely *not* used to pronounce that sounds, and thus it's a=20
bit difficult. I'll try to improve my pronunciation...

--=20
Sukender


Le mardi 12 septembre 2017 13:37:49 UTC+2, Pierre Abbat a =C3=A9crit :
>
> On Monday, September 11, 2017 10:17:59 PM EDT suke...@gmail.com=20
> <javascript:> wrote:=20
> > coi=20
> >=20
> > I have issues pronouncing the "xr" and "rx" pairs, such as in "pixra". =
I=20
> > generally have to make a pause, as if it was "pix,ra". Is it correct?=
=20
> > Actually, if I pronounce it too quickly, it sounds like "pirra" or=20
> "pixxa=20
> > "...=20
> >=20
> > More generally speaking, the French 'r' (my mother tongue language)=20
> > unfortunately sounds *between *the Lojban 'x' and 'r' sounds... So I=20
> guess=20
> > pronouncing the 'r' the French way is a very bad idea! I actually=20
> pronounce=20
> > it the Spanish way (so think about "pix,ra"...), not the English way. I=
=20
> > know there is no *absolute* rule about the 'r' pronunciation (*), but=
=20
> what=20
> > is your feeling about the most practical and most understandable way to=
=20
> > pronounce 'r', "xr" and "rx" ?=20
>
> I pronounce /r/ in both these combinations as a trill. I pronounce /xr/ a=
s=20
> overlapping /x/ and /r/, but /rx/ as /r/ followed by /x/ with no overlap.=
=20
> A=20
> long string of them, as in "rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani", gets interestin=
g=20
> :)=20
> I think that the way I should pronounce "rxrxr" is:=20
> /r/: [r], like Spanish "rr"=20
> /x/: [x] or [=CF=87]=20
> /r/: [=C9=9D], because it's syllabic=20
> /xr/: simultaneous alveolar and uvular trill, with voicing turned on in=
=20
> the=20
> middle.=20
> But I may pronounce it as a long simultaneous trill with the voicing=20
> turned=20
> off and on twice. (Hrazdan is a river in Armenia.)=20
>
> Pierre=20
> --=20
> .i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do=20
> .ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga=20
> .icu'u la ma'atman.=20
>
>

--=20
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Wow. Thanks for the answer. That frightens me, actually! M=
y tongue is absolutely <b>not</b> used to pronounce that sounds, and thus i=
t&#39;s a bit=C2=A0difficult. I&#39;ll try to improve my pronunciation...<d=
iv><br></div><div>--=C2=A0</div><div>Sukender<br><div><br><br>Le mardi 12 s=
eptembre 2017 13:37:49 UTC+2, Pierre Abbat a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On Monday, September 11, 2017 10:17:59 PM E=
DT <a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"TrTON=
W3IAwAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;=
return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">su=
ke...@gmail.com</a> wrote:
<br>&gt; coi
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; I have issues pronouncing the &quot;xr&quot; and &quot;rx&quot; pa=
irs, such as in &quot;pixra&quot;. I
<br>&gt; generally have to make a pause, as if it was &quot;pix,ra&quot;. I=
s it correct?
<br>&gt; Actually, if I pronounce it too quickly, it sounds like &quot;pirr=
a&quot; or &quot;pixxa
<br>&gt; &quot;...
<br>&gt;=20
<br>&gt; More generally speaking, the French &#39;r&#39; (my mother tongue =
language)
<br>&gt; unfortunately sounds *between *the Lojban &#39;x&#39; and &#39;r&#=
39; sounds... So I guess
<br>&gt; pronouncing the &#39;r&#39; the French way is a very bad idea! I a=
ctually pronounce
<br>&gt; it the Spanish way (so think about &quot;pix,ra&quot;...), not the=
 English way. I
<br>&gt; know there is no *absolute* rule about the &#39;r&#39; pronunciati=
on (*), but what
<br>&gt; is your feeling about the most practical and most understandable w=
ay to
<br>&gt; pronounce &#39;r&#39;, &quot;xr&quot; and &quot;rx&quot; ?
<br>
<br>I pronounce /r/ in both these combinations as a trill. I pronounce /xr/=
 as=20
<br>overlapping /x/ and /r/, but /rx/ as /r/ followed by /x/ with no overla=
p. A=20
<br>long string of them, as in &quot;rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani&quot;, get=
s interesting :)=20
<br>I think that the way I should pronounce &quot;rxrxr&quot; is:
<br>/r/: [r], like Spanish &quot;rr&quot;
<br>/x/: [x] or [=CF=87]
<br>/r/: [=C9=9D], because it&#39;s syllabic
<br>/xr/: simultaneous alveolar and uvular trill, with voicing turned on in=
 the=20
<br>middle.
<br>But I may pronounce it as a long simultaneous trill with the voicing tu=
rned=20
<br>off and on twice. (Hrazdan is a river in Armenia.)
<br>
<br>Pierre
<br>--=20
<br>.i toljundi do .ibabo mi&#39;afra tu&#39;a do
<br>.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
<br>.icu&#39;u la ma&#39;atman.
<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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