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Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 20:18:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: xorlo and the sumti gerku
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Le mardi 3 octobre 2017 01:03:13 UTC, stevo a =C3=A9crit :
>
> pi re loi mu gerku :
> Quantity 0.2 of a part of one of groups that consists of dogs that are fi=
ve
> (It is one dog.)
>
> Why does this not also mean an arbitrary group of parts of the group of=
=20
> five dogs, such as all their heads or legs?=20
>
> stevo
>

=20
Depending on the interpretation of combination of {gerku} and {si'e}, it=20
can mean heads or tails of dogs, but I don't think that interpretation=20
reflects a usual meaning of {gerku} and {si'e}.=20

{pi PA SUMTI} is defined as {lo pi PA si'e be pa me SUMTI}. According to=20
usual meaning of {si'e}, the referant of x1 of {pi PA si'e} should have the=
=20
same property as the referent of x2 of {pi PA si'e}, though that=20
interpretation is not officially declared. As shown in the example {pi re=
=20
lo mu gerku}, some selbrisni like {gerku} do not fit the usual meaning of=
=20
{si'e} because a part of dog is not a dog in usual meaning.=20

In the case of {pi re loi mu gerku}, which is developed as {lo pi re si'e=
=20
be pa me lo gunma be lo mu gerku}, x2 of {pi re si'e} refers to a=20
collective group of the referent of {gerku} in the meaning of xorlo, and=20
then the referent of x2 has the property of {gerku}. Therefore, according=
=20
to the usual meaning of {si'e}, x1 of {pi re si'e} should have the property=
=20
of {gerku}. However, according to the usual meaning of {gerku}, a head or a=
=20
tail of {gerku} does not have the property of {gerku}. In order to satisfy=
=20
the usual meaning of both, x1 of {pi re si'e} should be one dog.

mu'o

--=20
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le mardi 3 octobre 2017 01:03:13 UTC, stevo a =C3=
=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div style=3D"font-family:&quot;courier new&quot;,monospace"><div style=3D=
"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">pi re loi mu gerku<span sty=
le=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>:</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,=
sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">Quantity 0.2 of a part of one of groups that c=
onsists of dogs that are five</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-ser=
if;font-size:14.4px">(It is one dog.)</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,=
sans-serif;font-size:14.4px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans=
-serif;font-size:14.4px">Why does this not also mean an arbitrary group of =
parts of the group of five dogs, such as all their heads or legs?=C2=A0</di=
v><div style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px"><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px">stevo</div></div=
></div><div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><div><div>De=
pending on the interpretation of combination of {gerku} and {si&#39;e}, it =
can mean heads or tails of dogs, but I don&#39;t think that interpretation =
reflects a usual meaning of {gerku} and {si&#39;e}.=C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>{pi PA SUMTI} is defined as {lo pi PA si&#39;e be pa me SUMTI}. Acc=
ording to usual meaning of {si&#39;e}, the referant of x1 of {pi PA si&#39;=
e} should have the same property as the referent of x2 of {pi PA si&#39;e},=
 though that interpretation is not officially declared. As shown in the exa=
mple {pi re lo mu gerku}, some selbrisni like {gerku} do not fit the usual =
meaning of {si&#39;e} because a part of dog is not a dog in usual meaning.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>In the case of {pi re loi mu gerku}, which =
is developed as {lo pi re si&#39;e be pa me lo gunma be lo mu gerku}, x2 of=
 {pi re si&#39;e} refers to a collective group of the referent of {gerku} i=
n the meaning of xorlo, and then the referent of x2 has the property of {ge=
rku}. Therefore, according to the usual meaning of {si&#39;e}, x1 of {pi re=
 si&#39;e} should have the property of {gerku}. However, according to the u=
sual meaning of {gerku}, a head or a tail of {gerku} does not have the prop=
erty of {gerku}. In order to satisfy the usual meaning of both, x1 of {pi r=
e si&#39;e} should be one dog.</div></div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o</div=
></div>

<p></p>

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