Received: from mail-ua0-f191.google.com ([209.85.217.191]:62239) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eCofu-0003f6-1A for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:23:28 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f191.google.com with SMTP id q18sf1379081uaa.20 for ; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:23:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=cOa0XaZWdbcuYtbKsm8f0uqz/+XapxEeHx6v3CRXLJE=; b=Yx+uf+EwaTzf8BbLY6DtlHE+4u25DunoT/ci8OnkE2RuJ7pH5/Piks/toR+pOs55jx +VvdBpLq4IoCh5FCCmJcwzsEfyG1XejMbxJPcZojVRyjPXcgLdSVjNW7VbegVwzZZPkc aTHBAmnDs/xAjRWcORWAJE7523SkJk4OWYx+GCYX+xRFAqpZsWU+5LViyfDGwBBKOVJ6 sgH5F1cZvI08pnRg1KbyPMX8orDW6RrGl4bbp7DVeqCE7DoEn5xFc1lw9HJR5Uc04wo5 VXTgrS8MYoJCIbZpldPoT7oAsTpgLx2mruRCtgEEXJ+LtbA7nGqVUydMeAXmT17eYIrf Ekmg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=cOa0XaZWdbcuYtbKsm8f0uqz/+XapxEeHx6v3CRXLJE=; b=onSdK2pxjsMApOHUIhP0RoMsYs84/bsS2+nzrrgfcr65xry8RSJfZtseKEH0sDK95+ hS0altWfLY8e6aIy9+RPxkKk0gkUqBG4TZ1HwllzCvQkgcYWdz1IRALObjODMyFN6Qkr bdpFL/bxuRvSmoeW6BQPARJqnBq1Bg3OsThOQweYK0gBK2z9fkX7rdkGkEiekqL16iCG EA7f07RQ4GHRyHhFhmF4nMEURDGs3SvIGjO9wDyrT/rNqo+vG19Vjev//6z9dHBvSfPs Bd5PxoB312TVsRul2dQ3P3I23is7Ji9wsdxvJrEggpyHDOXWl9wpfC7I6A45GqhqM4cl wn6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=cOa0XaZWdbcuYtbKsm8f0uqz/+XapxEeHx6v3CRXLJE=; b=XPOaN4gJQTqzXdYs3Nt75U/6HBsh2j6DbIvwcW/oZUXAoP5EVIaIUsiQiC8V9W+X06 O5x8n9py1NgC9yOO4F4BCKXrhIW15rM5y++yLiYsDbWOSOnxFFnvLF5Quw0QefPeSh/D gn9Dx3rikEVXnv9J0XcGaKFwPHHcBkcMAEfV0TKzKB88lPoWu0sPshCk2M7kPQgAdwUi bcmmskVko4SHhNeOdEwmvVXmKxI3cUkc9i7DMyWVHCzdIy+ndNA/ZUfX57D/gZwnwGEO mHe2LRHvoTIXHFGopzuXSTp9TXTZxX5aLw1p1EVmVxUp2H8lkw2JMxxmay5yFzQz6EBe TfjA== Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4+UM1DAoZmxXhVx4fwzqLS3GvyNbqSJF4zdqMxGWz+YFly2tMH LFBiuC1s+cyI9J5xIEK1qvo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABhQp+RF+4Cd27MaFcS36nzLfnXLCrNkIvhRHi+VIEqJVT58aaV0EyGkp6zYtxnPFgvUxkLCFHOshA== X-Received: by 10.31.50.18 with SMTP id y18mr466130vky.6.1510240999642; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:23:19 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.176.83.149 with SMTP id k21ls595516uaa.16.gmail; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:23:18 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.149.85 with SMTP id x82mr463768vkd.3.1510240998182; Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:23:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 07:23:17 -0800 (PST) From: sukender1@gmail.com To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <8a17d6f0-039b-431f-ba4a-410369c9e73b@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] "Until proven otherwise" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4236_1309968696.1510240998026" X-Original-Sender: sukender1@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----) X-Spam_score: -4.6 X-Spam_score_int: -45 X-Spam_bar: ---- Content-Length: 9510 ------=_Part_4236_1309968696.1510240998026 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4237_257318441.1510240998027" ------=_Part_4237_257318441.1510240998027 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm still a bit confused by modals. I think I'll re-read the CLL :) Thanks you two for proposals. I prefer the "se cau lo natfe" for its=20 brevity, but others are interesting for "until" constructions. la .sykyndyr. Le jeudi 9 novembre 2017 15:13:21 UTC+1, Michael Turniansky a =C3=A9crit : > > No. (Well, I mean, you *can* have those string of words in a sentence,= =20 > but it doesn't mean what you think it means ;-) ) BAI (what are confusing= ly=20 > called "modals" in English) are always pre-positional. That is, they mus= t=20 > come before the sumti that fills their slot. (unless, of course, modern= =20 > lojbanists have changed the rules on this. But this is CLL lojban) > > --gejyspa > > On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:07 AM, > wrote: > >> Much shorter, thanks! ... even if "waiting for a contradictor" is not=20 >> that far away from what we generally express :-) >> Can I say "lo nafte [ku] cau"? >> >> Le jeudi 9 novembre 2017 14:49:27 UTC+1, Michael Turniansky a =C3=A9crit= : >>> >>> That implies you are actually waiting until there is a contradictor. = =20 >>> I might simply say se cau lo natfe >>> >>> --gejyspa=20 >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:18 AM, wrote: >>> >>>> I try to find a translation of this expression. What do you think abou= t=20 >>>> "denpa lo nu naljetyja'o"? >>>> >>>> la .sykyndyr. >>>> >>>> --=20 >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google=20 >>>> Groups "Lojban Beginners" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send= =20 >>>> an email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> --=20 >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "Lojban Beginners" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban-beginne...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to lojban-b...@googlegroups.com=20 >> . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_4237_257318441.1510240998027 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm still a bit confused by modals. I think I'= ;ll re-read the CLL :)
Thanks you two for proposals. I prefer the= "se cau lo natfe" for its brevity, but others are interesting fo= r "until" constructions.

la .sykyndyr.

Le jeudi 9 novembre 2017 15:13:21 UTC+1, Michael Turniansky a = =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
No.=C2=A0 (Well, I mean, you can have those string of words in a= sentence, but it doesn't mean what you think it means ;-) ) BAI (what = are confusingly called "modals" in English) are always pre-positi= onal.=C2=A0 That is, they must come before the sumti that fills their slot.= =C2=A0 (unless, of course, modern lojbanists have changed the rules on this= .=C2=A0 But this is CLL lojban)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 9:07 AM, <suke...@gmail.com> wrote:
Muc= h shorter, thanks! ... even if "waiting for a contradictor" is no= t that far away from what we generally express :-)
Can I say "lo n= afte [ku] cau"?

Le jeudi 9 novembre 2017 14:49:27 UTC+1, = Michael Turniansky a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
=C2=A0 That implies you are actually waiti= ng until there is a contradictor.=C2=A0 I might simply say se cau lo natfe<= div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa=C2=A0
<= /span>

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 1:18= AM, <suke...@gmail.com> wrote:
I try to find a translation of this expression. What do you think about &= quot;denpa lo nu naljetyja'o"?

la .sykyndyr.

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