Received: from mail-ua0-f192.google.com ([209.85.217.192]:42649) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1emla0-0005zM-HW for lojban-beginners-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:21:58 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f192.google.com with SMTP id r30sf2336928uag.9 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:21:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20161025; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=84xTpy/1QNwo8w7xlb5dYNfLcF2XqOU3UtkkdcPMeZo=; b=qAbJNlqCrzObMe6IpzgfbWf83hEcn9qPwkiWL6ri19p5v+C169Z+/AtQlemQ9JfTXQ B2aIEVrv5YIP635G1ijZNHFjSFmx+9Box/1VsV4Axgwn88n2NrntOxc9ffF9jlThcP08 WH7LQwA3cIaUL1YwhzHgpg8axdjvpDtZrcvnI7CfgXkumW3E9A7+R0AnNf41i9/shqCL tS0Pj4A2zzXgpog4YRX7Etgf0VvJfEJZfJGktPSithtfCZHuYsichqPZitWwvQuy3IJ7 2gRLrO+o4snaPUnhIFK3wbRHCB3tJF0iFn/hHvpxa1mDIQqxdQSgdIbeN6xnGsAs+h/K kd3g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=84xTpy/1QNwo8w7xlb5dYNfLcF2XqOU3UtkkdcPMeZo=; b=Kl1neSNuBDl89S2iJ+In/JkSqRFeWDOXg6Ajl0wsIw9gJZVuTZQkW6OoTw68jbJuCG 46OD4qoC5H/1vCaGlTGIJt9ltbvren1xv+vPkmFN4PKv5o4ao2vDMy3GkKml57rcLxk1 MaP9qV9UrwMLQirOpaElzzt1VS0aAyxatsXfa/fPNeaZwCWOjOOMIC+wiw3P2y+l+cFd UikvkQ9iBUVtJZcnAyEto1X6O+Vzhm+HErMXRD1dcV7LJFIqutFJZF8SdrJXsm8mb8ak 7kr+DPTOLcfx2oilxBEOKQoHXEiTEtOv/IvE3DPUk1WWcmyjyzJz+awdXNLzTiBV4rFe avgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=84xTpy/1QNwo8w7xlb5dYNfLcF2XqOU3UtkkdcPMeZo=; b=Cs4W9/yD+MHfflaVkMDL9YNm9M1/kNFxe8vb78mSfhHcbs6auQORXPpEwFW0z/XPiF tZlcg35D/IWF4KzT1K1MVTZseY+/+VjMpYKS0AhOC+eIs+gCtSj/1klZ6eu07wnAboqL Jx8r6edMOhVe7BzNllC5Jru/9PW1igCcXZioZj1XandtMg8sO3hg2p6Ow3TpYdOUa1S7 Jc1tbDPa1KTR6neVjFqxAsBQ/DTk1hdS4L1U+gRvRU7K0wVdo+w093i8wZcRBG8pFWYg Bdd/SfcCNIg2IGoxCXR1JS4y2KimHQik+p9A+VaS2AjbKJqquHICwl3+Ey53OY2Tc9pv oYTg== Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBxMk2/axG7711UWMuDifsA4u9i9pdQC2BQb3ZafuUbEfPBtZHz dbqVYQICkgDVGYsr/5qEylc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227a4Qc+5fqHYSiU4ExSdAZCGs7MXkZ1Rqlhcvt9npGCXQsMgWQLL0/8CmmS0RdTOMjq97qZSg== X-Received: by 10.31.153.195 with SMTP id b186mr156278vke.14.1518808909925; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:21:49 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.31.202.66 with SMTP id a63ls1586188vkg.6.gmail; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:21:48 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.31.182.77 with SMTP id g74mr520485vkf.12.1518808908519; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:21:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:21:47 -0800 (PST) From: volcpitar To: Lojban Beginners Message-Id: <402be46a-b163-408d-80f5-d584f2f512a8@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <9dde04ba-9448-4e17-8b6f-3fe6f4be3cc8@googlegroups.com> References: <9dde04ba-9448-4e17-8b6f-3fe6f4be3cc8@googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Clause connections and the equivalent of serial verbs: How to translate "Come and take them" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4861_1634039496.1518808907748" X-Original-Sender: ivspnemi@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com; contact lojban-beginners+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 300742228892 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 15072 ------=_Part_4861_1634039496.1518808907748 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4862_317019048.1518808907748" ------=_Part_4862_317019048.1518808907748 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 1:48:06 PM UTC-5, volcpitar wrote: > > Coi ro do mi=E2=80=99e la volcpitar no'u lo di=E2=80=99a nintadni be la l= ojban > > .i a=E2=80=99o mi bao la lojban. drani cusku dei .i pe=E2=80=99u ko se va= =E2=80=99u mi draga=E2=80=99igau=20 > lo se srera pe lo go'i. > > > > Greetings all! I am Volcpitar and am back as a still new student of=20 > Lojban. I hope I am saying these sentences correctly in Lojban and would= =20 > appreciate any corrections. > > > > I have just been finishing my review of the CLL and the list of gismu and= =20 > have a few questions regarding how to connect clauses. In the back of my= =20 > mind, I am thinking about languages that use serial verbs or an equivalen= t=20 > to express stages of an action and am wondering how these should come=20 > across in Lojban. > > To take a concrete example, how could you translate=20 > =CE=BC=CE=BF=CE=BB=E1=BD=BC=CE= =BD =CE=BB=CE=B1=CE=B2=CE=AD (mol=E1=B9=91n lab=C3=A9)=20 > (Come and take them!)=20 > , the Spartans=E2=80=99 famous = response=20 > to the Persians=E2=80=99 demand to lay down arms and surrender at the bat= tle of=20 > Thermopylae? > > Although English can use a connective, clearly the meaning is really =E2= =80=9Ccome=20 > to take them!=E2=80=9D and involves a single activity rather than two sep= arate=20 > ones. How could I handle this succinctly in Lojban? > > A related question is how would I just say: =E2=80=9CCome here=E2=80=9D? = My first guess=20 > would be =E2=80=9Cko vi klama,=E2=80=9D but wouldn=E2=80=99t that imply = that the entire movement=20 > described by the selbri--i.e., the entire route-- is close by, rather tha= n=20 > just the destination? > > Given the context, the best I can come up with for =E2=80=9CCome and take= them=E2=80=9D is=20 > > --{.i ko te ka=E2=80=99a vi lebna > > Or perhaps: > > --{.i ko ve ka=E2=80=99a ti lebna > > As for =E2=80=9Ccome here,=E2=80=9D the only solution I can find is > > --{i. ko ti klama > > Using =E2=80=9Cti=E2=80=9D as a translation of =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is = a usage that appears in the CLL,=20 > but I have never quite been sure about using it to indicate a vague=20 > undelimited place. > > > > .i xu lo zi xelvanva be fu mi cu gendra ja smudra .i xu zasti fa lo se=20 > cu=E2=80=99u xagmau be de=E2=80=99u > > > > Are my translations above syntactically and/or semantically correct? Are= =20 > there other better ways to express them? > > mu=E2=80=99o > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Lojban Beginners" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban-beginners+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban-beginners. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_4862_317019048.1518808907748 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Friday, February 16, 2018 at 1:48:06 PM UTC-5, = volcpitar wrote:

C= oi ro do mi=E2=80=99e la volcpitar no'u = lo di=E2=80=99a nintadni be la loj= ban


.i a=E2=80=99o mi bao la lojban. drani cusku dei .i pe=E2=80=99u ko= se va=E2=80=99u mi draga=E2=80=99igau lo se srera pe lo go'i.



Greetings all! =C2=A0I am Volcpitar and am back as a still new student of = Lojban. =C2=A0I hope I am saying these sentences correctly in Lojban and wo= uld appreciate any corrections.



I have just been finishing my revi= ew of the CLL and the list of gismu and have a few questions regarding how = to connect clauses. =C2=A0In the back of my mind, I am thinking about langu= ages that use serial verbs or an equivalent to express stages of an action = and am wondering how these should come across in Lojban.


To take a conc= rete example, how could you translate mol=E1=B9=91n lab=C3=A9) (Come and take them= !), the Spartans=E2=80=99 famous resp= onse to the Persians=E2=80=99 demand to lay down arms and surrender at the bat= tle of Thermopylae?


Although English can use a connective, clearly = the meaning is really =E2=80=9Ccome to take them!=E2=80=9D and involves a s= ingle activity rather than two separate ones. =C2=A0=C2=A0How could I handl= e this succinctly =C2=A0in Lojban?


A related question is how would I ju= st say: =E2=80=9CCome here=E2=80=9D? =C2=A0My first guess would be =E2=80= =9Cko vi klama,=E2=80=9D =C2=A0but wouldn=E2=80=99t that imply = that the entire movement described by the selbri--i.e., the entire route-- = is close by, rather than just the destination?


Given the context, the b= est I can come up with for =E2=80=9CCome and take them=E2=80=9D is <= /p>

--{= .i ko te ka=E2=80=99a vi lebna


Or perhaps:


--{.i ko ve ka=E2=80=99a= ti lebna


As for =E2=80=9Ccome here,=E2=80=9D the only solution I can f= ind is


--{i. ko ti klama


Using =E2=80=9Cti=E2=80=9D as = a translation of =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is a usage that appears in the CLL,= but I have never quite been sure about using it to indicate a vague undeli= mited place.



.i xu lo zi xelvanva be fu mi cu gendra ja smudra .i = xu zasti fa lo se cu=E2=80=99u xagmau be de=E2=80=99u



Are my trans= lations above syntactically and/or semantically correct? =C2=A0Are there ot= her better ways to express them?


mu=E2=80=99o


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