Sender: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2019 06:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nestor Diaz <nesiax@gmail.com>
To: Lojban Beginners <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] {za'a}
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Hola Jorge, te habia enviado un email hace un par de dias, mi nombre es=20
Nestor, soy colombiano y estoy por Argentina en estos momentos, mas=20
exactamente en Buenos Aires, y quiero conocerte, nunca logre convencer a=20
nadie sobre aprender lojban y nunca tuve oportunidad de practicar con=20
alguien y eres lo mas cercano a eso.

Si quieres nos podemos ver para tomar un caf=C3=A9.

Saludos.

Nestor

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 6:00:11 PM UTC-3, xorxes wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Ilmen <ilmen....@gmail.com <javascript:>=
>=20
> wrote:
>
>> Does {za'a} imply that the event described by the sentence is witnessed=
=20
>> at the very time of utterance, or does it simply means that the informat=
ion=20
>> comes from direct personal experience (directly/sensorily witnessed), ev=
en=20
>> if in remote past? Is {za'a pu broda} nonsensical?
>>
> I would say the former, in contrast with "ti'e" for second-hand evidence.
>
> I don't see why "za'a" couldn't be combined with "ba'a nai" or even with=
=20
> "ba'a", even if "za'a [ba'a cu'i]" is te most common use.
>
> We probably should not be mixing the time of the event (marked with PU)=
=20
> with the time in which the evidence for the event is obtained (marked wit=
h=20
> "ba'a [cu'i/nai]"). All combinations are possible, as it is possible to=
=20
> remember (knowing) that something will happen in the future, and to expec=
t=20
> (to find out) that something has happened in the past. I suppose that in=
=20
> the case of "za'a", the PU-time and the ba'a-time should match, but not=
=20
> necessarily for other evidentials.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hola Jorge, te habia enviado un email hace un par de dias,=
 mi nombre es Nestor, soy colombiano y estoy por Argentina en estos momento=
s, mas exactamente en Buenos Aires, y quiero conocerte, nunca logre convenc=
er a nadie sobre aprender lojban y nunca tuve oportunidad de practicar con =
alguien y eres lo mas cercano a eso.<div><br></div><div>Si quieres nos pode=
mos ver para tomar un caf=C3=A9.</div><div><br></div><div><div>Saludos.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Nestor</div><div><br>On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 6:00:=
11 PM UTC-3, xorxes wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, May 14, 2017 a=
t 2:27 PM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_b=
lank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"2Q8PCQ7iBAAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=
=3D"this.href=3D&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D=
&#39;javascript:&#39;;return true;">ilmen....@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p>Does {za&#39;a} imply that the event described by the sentence is
      witnessed at the very time of utterance, or does it simply means
      that the information comes from direct personal experience
      (directly/sensorily witnessed), even if in remote past? Is {za&#39;a
      pu broda} nonsensical?</p></div></blockquote><div>I would say the for=
mer, in contrast with &quot;ti&#39;e&quot; for second-hand evidence.</div><=
div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t see why &quot;za&#39;a&quot; couldn&#39;t be=
 combined with &quot;ba&#39;a nai&quot; or even with &quot;ba&#39;a&quot;, =
even if &quot;za&#39;a [ba&#39;a cu&#39;i]&quot; is te most common use.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>We probably should not be mixing the time of the even=
t (marked with PU) with the time in which the evidence for the event is obt=
ained (marked with &quot;ba&#39;a [cu&#39;i/nai]&quot;). All combinations a=
re possible, as it is possible to remember (knowing) that something will ha=
ppen in the future, and to expect (to find out) that something has happened=
 in the past. I suppose that in the case of &quot;za&#39;a&quot;, the PU-ti=
me and the ba&#39;a-time should match, but not necessarily for other eviden=
tials.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></di=
v></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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