Received: from localhost ([::1]:58077 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T7TX2-00045z-5g; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:53:16 -0700 Received: from 173-13-139-235-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net ([173.13.139.235]:46558 helo=digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1T7TWv-00045m-E7 for wikichanges@lojban.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:53:14 -0700 Received: by digitalkingdom.org (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:53:08 -0700 From: "Apache" Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:53:08 -0700 To: wikichanges@lojban.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 48:htmlMimeMail.php MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Spam_score: 2.0 X-Spam_score_int: 20 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: The page BPFK Section: sensory gismu was changed by gleki at 15:53 UTC You can view the page by following this link: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section%3A%20sensory%20gismu [...] Content analysis details: (2.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 1.6 RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT RBL: RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT [173.13.139.235 listed in bb.barracudacentral.org] 0.4 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to internal network by host with dynamic-looking rDNS Subject: [Wikichanges] Wiki page BPFK Section: sensory gismu changed by gleki X-BeenThere: wikichanges@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: webmaster@lojban.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: wikichanges-bounces@lojban.org Content-Length: 5060 The page BPFK Section: sensory gismu was changed by gleki at 15:53 UTC You can view the page by following this link: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section%3A%20sensory%20gismu You can view a diff back to the previous version by following this link: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=BPFK%20Section%3A%20sensory%20gismu&compare=1&oldver=5&newver=6 *********************************************************** The changes in this version follow below, followed after by the current full page text. *********************************************************** +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ @@ -Lines: 53-61 changed to +Lines: 53-71 @@ +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ This scheme is consistent. The only problem is that it doesn't correspond to the current mess of sensory gismu. - The only gismu that corresponds to this scheme is {te panci} (probably {te jvinu} as well, thanks xorxes for pointing out!). + The only gismu that corresponds to this scheme is {te panci}.
Probably {te jvinu} as well (thanks xorxes for pointing out!) and {te skari}.

tirna3=viska3=skari4 is something that we can also place in every sensory gismu.
However, they can be easily expressed using {va'o}.

gua\spi's {vyi=X1 sees object X2 against background X3} looks like lojbanic tirna3.
{sumne} is a superfluous gismu. - {te tirna} is something that we can also place in every sensory gismu.
{vrusi} overlaps the senses of taste and smell. +
{vrusi} overlaps the senses of taste and smell (against the policy of lojban one word=one meaning).

In gua\spi there are a bit better definitions, e.g. {xel=X1 smells like prototype (xi) X2*}. This is something that definitely needs revision. We have five senses and we must clearly express what we feel. + *********************************************************** The new page content follows below. *********************************************************** Taken from two mailing list messages: [http://mail.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg33823.html|pamoi] [http://mail.lojban.org/lists/lojban-list/msg33824.html|remoi]. Sense words can either express experiencing the sensation or expressing an action being taken to acquire a sensation. In English, these are: ||__Active__|__Passive__ look | see listen | hear touch | feel sniff | smell taste | taste || In Lojban, there are few dedicated gismu: || |__Active__|__Passive__ sight| catlu | viska sound| | tirna touch| pencu | scent| | sumne taste| | __generic__| zgana | ganse || There are two options of lujvo. Naming based on the sensory organ gives: || |__Active__|__Passive__ sight| kalzga | kalga'e sound| kerzga | kerga'e touch| pilzga | pilga'e scent| zbizga | zbiga'e taste| tacyzga|tacyga'e || Naming based on the thing being sensed gives: || |__Active__|__Passive__ sight| vinzga | vinga'e sound| snazga | snaga'e touch| te'uzga|te'urga'e scent| panzga | panga'e taste| vu'izga|vu'irga'e || !la gleki's solution is to replace the current set of sensory predicates with another one. The scheme is still not complete. Let's put all sensory aspects into one table. These are the predicate that we might get (I will give them temporary names in curly brackets). {HEAR} - x1 hears object(e.g. musician)/event (e.g. concert) x2, listens to it and defines x2 as x3 (noisy, loud, sweet, lovely, romantic etc.) {SEE} - x1 sees object/event x2, looks at x2 and defines it as x3 (green, that it looks ugly etc.) {SMELL} - x1 smells object/event x2, observes x2 and defines it as x3 (e.g. flowery,pungent, musk) {TASTE} - x1 tastes object/event x2, observes x2 and defines it as x3 (e.g. tasty, sweet,sour) {TOUCH} - x1 touches x2, observes (tries) x2 and defines it as having texture x3 (e.g. rought) As you can see we actually need valsi with three places. "observe" is a variation of each predicate that can be best expressed using additional {jundi} or {zgana}. This scheme is consistent. The only problem is that it doesn't correspond to the current mess of sensory gismu. The only gismu that corresponds to this scheme is {te panci}. Probably {te jvinu} as well (thanks xorxes for pointing out!) and {te skari}. tirna3=viska3=skari4 is something that we can also place in every sensory gismu. However, they can be easily expressed using {va'o}. gua\spi's {vyi=X1 sees object X2 against background X3} looks like lojbanic tirna3. {sumne} is a superfluous gismu. {vrusi} overlaps the senses of taste and smell (against the policy of lojban one word=one meaning). In gua\spi there are a bit better definitions, e.g. {xel=X1 smells like prototype (xi) X2*}. This is something that definitely needs revision. We have five senses and we must clearly express what we feel. _______________________________________________ Wikichanges mailing list Wikichanges@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/wikichanges