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Re: [bpfk] Re: Grammar of letterals and numerals in {li}





On Mon, Jun 8, 2015 at 11:38 PM, <spheniscine@gmail.com> wrote:
If I understand correctly, you are proposing that "operand" would no longer be "quantifier" or "lerfu-string" (among other things) but some new mixed entity. Whether this is a problem or not depends on your idea of simplicity, and whether or not it's worth striving for.

The thing is in this particular context, it's causing so many problems. Simplicity is worth it up to a point, but not when it causes so many problems.

I guess I don't really see the many problems. I have fallen, and seen others fall, into the "abu za'u re'u cusku" trap and similar traps many times. I don't recall seeing things like "li 827266128281627362816Z" or even like "li R2D2" much in use. 

Don't get me wrong; I actually support your proposal. I'm just trying to come to a compromise for what I and others see is the part of it that causes the most problems, for the least benefit.

For me even for operands the cost outweighs the benefits.

We now have to attach "bu" to every vowel, is that so different? Lerfu-strings are relatively rare in usage. I just don't see much need to have special rules for them.

For one thing there is an experimental letteral series that uses a'y, e'y, i'y, o'y, and u'y (however, it's not been decided what to do with y'y under this system).

We could have pa'y, re'y, ci'y as well if that was an issue (I am NOT proposing these). 
 
For another thing, it introduces opacity to the Lojban numeral system. They are embarrassingly simple compared to most other languages in that they are read out nacle'u by nacle'u. Having to figure out when {bu} needs to be added to them before reading any character string aloud ruins that simplicity. 

It's like this. "abu, ebu" etc are treated as one "word" in people's minds, and represent the letters {a} and {e}. However, deciding when to use {pa} and when to use {pabu}, when both are rendered as the simple numeral {1}, introduces practical usage difficulties.

Having to decide when digits can be mixed with letters and when they can't would introduce more usage difficulties in my opinion. I just don't see lerfu-strings being used that much, let alone ones containing digits.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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