Re: [bpfk] pi PA [sumti]

I note that the current Lojban definition of {si'e} in jbovlaste is somewhat different (and clearer) from the English. The English says (or seems to say) the PA is to be interpreted as "a PA'th", i.e. 1/PA, so that {lo mu si'e} would be one-fifth or 20%. But then what does {lo pi re si'e} mean? Presumably also 20% -- this is clearly the intent of expanding {pire lo plise} to {lo pire si'e be pa me lo plise}.

cmavo: si'e (MOI)
Jbovlaste Lojban Definition

galfi lu'e lo namcu lo selbrisle .i x1 pagbu x2 ije le namcu cu frinu le se klani be x1 le se klani be x2

The Lojban definition simply says that the PA is the ratio between the quantities of x1 and x2, so there is no room for the "one PA'th" interpretation, and indeed {lo mu si'e} (500%) would either be nonsensical, or we would have {x1 mu si'e x2} = {x2 pire si'e x1}.

So I think this is the root of the problem. Assuming the Lojban definition is to be trusted, should we remove the "x1 is a PA'th of x2" expansion, or clarify that it only applies in the case that PA is an integer greater than one, or something?

Some usage -- which I have not attempted to analyze -- can be seen by entering these queries at the Advanced tab in la korpora zei sisku (sorry, I tried linking directly to the results and got a dead bird):

PA* si'e (no {pi}) 44 results [pos != "PA"] [pos = "PA" & word != "pi"]+ [word = "si'e"]

piPA* si'e 18 results [pos != "PA"] [word = "pi"] [pos = "PA"]+ [word = "si'e"]

Maybe there is also some {PA*piPA* si'e} usage, I didn't check -- constructing that query is left as an exercise for the reader %^)

mu'o mi'e la durkavore

• http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+gadri

piPA [sumti] = lo piPA si'e be pa me [sumti]

• http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Numeric+selbri

cmavo: si'e (MOI)
Proposed Definition

Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 is/are a [number]th of x2". In general for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is a part/fraction of x2, quantified by [number/lerfu/sumti]".

Isn't there a contradiction between the proposed expansion for {pi PA [sumti]} and the definition of {si'e}?
Shouldn't the former be {pi PA [sumti] = lo me li pa fe'i PA me'u si'e be...}, or something like that?

Besides, isn't it weird that {pi ro ko'a} has a different meaning from {pa ko'a}?

mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o

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