Re: [jboske] Re: RE: Re: lo'edu'u

["Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>]

la nitcion cusku di'e

> lo'e merko cu xabju ma
> .i na'i pa da zo'u lo'e merko xabju da
> .i lo'e merko cu vrici le du'u ce'u xabju makau

I don't have a problem with that, but notice that it would be
false that {so'e merko cu vrici le du'u ce'u xabju makau}.

> > What colour it has in a given situation depends on the situation.
>
> Again, different presupposition, different conclusion. You have a local
> squinting, I guess, which is why situation can change what colour the
> squinted box has. I admit only global squinting, which is independent
> of context, considering boxes as a global population in themselves. In
> such a view, situation is irrelevant --- unless the situation is that
> there has arisen a cult painting all the boxes they ever find blue.

So you use {lo'e} for context-independent claims only. Not very
useful for everyday conversation, but then nobody was using {lo'e}
much anyway so that's consistent.

> >> .i mi nitcu lo'ei tanxe
> >> .i xu su'o da zo'u da skari ri
> >> .i go'i fa da kaunai
> >>
> >> The "fill in a blank here" box does have a colour; it's just
> >> unspecified and uninstantiated. There's no na'i about it.
> > Very interesting use of {kau}! Can you explain the {nai} there?
> > I would have just used {makau} for "whatever colour".
>
> kaunai means that the value is not known, and not instantiated; but is
> known to exist and be unique {da}. Is it odd to use {kau} like that?

The "known" part is not right. It comes from most examples of
{kau} being based on {djuno}, but it is not really part of {kau}.
We can say {noda djuno le du'u makau zukte}, "nobody knows who
did it", for example, where {kau} obviously does not mean that
the value is known. It is not even clear that it need be
instantiated.

> When we say {da kau go'i}, we say that the value is known and is
> instantiated, but just isn't communicated. When you're asking for a
> box, you know that whatever box satisfies the request will be a
> specific, concrete box, and so will have a colour. What colour that
> will be, noone knows yet; it is, after all, intensionally defined.

I may also need something that I will never get. I would just
say:

i mi nitcu lo'e tanxe "I need a box."
i ma skari ty "Of what colour?"
i makau skari "Of any colour." "(Of whatever colour.)"

And had some valid objections to this, but I can't remember
them now.

> When
> you know who killed the butler (kauja'ai), OTOH, there's nothing
> intensional and fluffy there: the killer of the butler has a denotation
> known to at least one person.
>
> (I've used ja'ai. Truly the end times are upon us...)

We can include {ja'ai} and such in the apocalypse section of
the dictionary.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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