Re: [jboske] RE: lo'ie != lo'ei

[John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>]

Nick Nicholas scripsit:

> And herein our misunderstanding. Because of course I didn't think of 
> prototype in that way. And there is a long-running confusion as to 
> what this Mr Bird is in Lojban; until recently, after all, we all 
> assumed it was {loi cipni}. For all I know, it may in fact still be 
> loi} and not {lo'e}.

I certainly have always used "Mr. X" to mean "loi X"; I saw Mr. Bird last
week, meaning that I saw some part of loi X, the massified glob-of-all-birds.
But I cannot perceive lo'e cipni in any sense.

> That said, the "I want to talk to a doctor/any doctor" is a 
> far far better illustration of this intensional doctor, because we 
> don't need to get sidetracked by {buska}. 

I think the problem as stated is insufficiently general. After all,
why doesn't it apply with equal force to "I need eight maids a-milking?"
Does that mean some specific eight maids, or any eight maids?
In other contexts we talk about le bi vs. bi lo.

> My opinion is still that (b) wins out, that the Median is closer to 
> the CLL's lion, and that something *like* {se ka} or {jai ka} would 
> be good for the intensional lo'e, since it would directly and 
> mnemonically tie in with the {sisku x2} (a fact on the Lojban ground.)

Is "Median" here meant as a prototype for the numerical senses only, or
does it include Prototype?

> Perhaps. Like I say, though, I don't know that Mr Doctor is lo'e 
> mikce. In fact, I don't know yet that s/he isn't {loi mikce} after 
> all. Massification suppresses individuation, so the choosing of 
> opacity vs. transparency is sidestepped there too. Isn't it?

It is; in fact, if "do nitcu loi mikce", any doctor will satisfy you.
Technically, so will sundry detached doctor parts, but we can allow
the Gricean salvator to suppress this.

-- 
Only do what only you can do. John Cowan <jcowan@reutershealth.com>
--Edsger W. Dijkstra, http://www.reutershealth.com
deceased 6 August 2002 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan