Re: RE: [jboske] loi'e & truthconditions (was: RE: carving the lo'e debateinto shape

[Adam Raizen <araizen@cs.huji.ac.il>]

de'i li 2002-10-25 ti'u li 16:31:00 la'o zoi. And Rosta .zoi cusku di'e

>> If, e.g., lions are on the brink of extinction due to hunting, I 
>> think that 'da kalte loi'e cinfo' is true (taking that 'da' as 
>> something like 'le gunma poi kalte') 
>
>It's appropriate, not "true". If *the one lion* is on the brink of
>extinction due to hunting then 'da kalte loi'e cinfo' is true.
>The issue is not the conditions under which {loi'e broda cu brode}
>is *true* -- that's easy and uncontroversial, since the claim
>is made only about worlds in which there is just one broda. The 
>issue is the conditions that we can informatively describe as {loi'e 
>broda cu brode}. That is not really a matter for jboske legislation, 
>or so it seems to me.

Your original formulation of 'loi'e' did not involve possible worlds,
but rather a reconceptualization of *this* world. (Is 'a version of 
the world' a possible world?) I reject the possible worlds 
interpretation, since a world with exactly one lion in it would be so 
significantly different from this one, that I would not interpret 
statements about it as relevant to this one.

Perhaps 'true' was not the most appropriate word here, but I think
that we need to investigate the truth conditions and not the conditions
for relevant informativeness. If the conditions for relevant 
informativeness are always different from the conditions for truth,
then the meaning of 'loi'e' ends up changes, and thus eventually
the truth conditions.

A reconceptualization of the world in such a drastic manner is certainly
very subjective, and so for it to work the speaker and listener must
tend to reconceptualize in similar manners. However, there are certain
ground rules must obtain; most obviously, the reconceptualization must
be based on lo'i broda, and not le'i, no matter what the context.
Someone who hunts lions but not tigers couldn't say 'mi kalte loi'e
cinfo', unless they are specifically ignoring or are ignorant of the
existance of other lions outside of their hunting world. They could
say 'mi kalte lei'e cinfo', as something like 'I hunt them lions',
but in this case I would probably say 'mi kalte tu'o cinfo .enai
tu'o tirxu', like xorxes.

mu'o mi'e .adam.