ni ce'u (was: RE: The ugly head of ni

["And Rosta" <a.rosta@lycos.co.uk>]

John:
> Invent Yourself scripsit:
>
> > If ni uses ce'u, then it can't express "the degree to which", because
> > that's an abstraction of a filled bridi. If ni doesn't need ce'u, then it
> > makes sense, but loses its symmetry with ka, and becomes completely
> > identical to jei.
>
> Oho!
>
> This gives me an idea.
>
> What if ni is to jei as ka is to du'u?
>
> le ka ce'u kusru la djim. = the property of being cruel to Jim
> le ka la djan. kusru ce'u = the property of being a victim of John's cruelty
> le du'u la djan. kusru la djim. = the assertion that John is cruel to Jim
> le ka ce'u kusru ce'u = cruelty, the relationship between cruel one and victim
>
> le ni ce'u kusru la djim = the amount of cruelty to Jim
> le ni la djan. ce'u kusru = the amount of being a victim of John
> le jei la djan. ce'u la djim. = the degree to which John is cruel to Jim
> le ni ce'u kusru ce'u = the amount of cruelty
>
> I think this is nicely symmetrical, useful, and as consistent with the
> past as can be expected.
>
> Comments?

I'm not sure if you silently dropped this idea. I can make no sense of
ni + ce'u.

> le ni ce'u kusru la djim = the amount of cruelty to Jim

ni da kusru la djim

> le ni la djan. ce'u kusru = the amount of being a victim of John

ni la djan da kusru

> le jei la djan. ce'u la djim. = the degree to which John is cruel to Jim

(ce'u > kusru)

Is the idea here that certain degrees correspond to True and certain
degrees to False?

> le ni ce'u kusru ce'u = the amount of cruelty

ni da kusru da

Is there a difference between amounts and degrees? Not that I can
trust myself to apply.

My opinion on ni: treat ni as a gradient jei:

djuno lo'edu'u ma kau jei la djim broda
= "know whether djim is broda"
= know djim is broda or know djim isn't broda

djuno lo'edu'u ma kau ni la djim broda
= "know to what extent djim is broda"

--And.