Re: [jboske] inner quantifier of e-gadri (was: RE: putative tense scope effects

[And Rosta <arosta@uclan.ac.uk>]

>>> pycyn@aol.com 11/04/02 01:44pm >>>
#a.rosta@lycos.co.uk writes:
#<<
#> >though the implicit internal {su'o} does 
#> 
#> I overlooked this in my earlier reply to xod. Given that {le broda}
#> is officially {le su'o broda}, you are right, of course, except in
#> that IMO the inner quantifier falls within what is nonveridical and
#> hence not actually part of what the sentence claims.
#>>
#Whereas I think they are presuppositional and hence out of the sentence in 
#another way -- but veridical.

I completely agree. Nonveridicality is an epiphenomenon of presuppositionality.

#<<
# But
#if the in-mind thing is an intensionally-defined set, i.e. the
#referent of {le'i}, then {le no} is not excluded.
#>>
#This is getting close to an almost plausible account of empty references and 
#it might even seem to work if {le'i} is primitive as & postulates. But the 
#notion of a primitive defined set seems at odds with standard practice andan 
#"intensionally-defined" set is barely intelligible, unless it means "set 
#defined by its property," which is just how sets are usually defined, so not 
#worth mentioning (and, of course, means that the set is not the primitive 
#notion).

I need to backtrack slightly, seeing as the official default inner cardinality 
is su'o. The meaning I've been ascribing to {le'i} would actually
be that of {le'i ro}. (See http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?experimental%20gadri 
for more on this.) 

I don't know what terminology would be more familiar to you than "extensionally"
and "intensionally" defined sets. An ext.-defined set is one defined by listing its
members -- and they may have no uniquely common property other than their
very membership of the set. An int-defined set is the set S such that everyx is
a member of S iff x has property P.

#<<
# In any 
#> case, if there aren't any, the claim automatically goes to Untrue.
#
#Give or take the issue of presupposition.
#>>
#"Untrue" was picked to take that consideration into account -- especially 
#since I think that is often crucial.

We've too much on our plates to debate this one at the moment, I think.

--And.