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[lojban-beginners] Re: Pronouncing "x"

Ronald (I hope you don't mind that I address you rather informally),
I took a different approach on learning how to pronounce the Lojban "x". I happen to have studied the Persian (Farsi) alphabet, and it has the character "خ" or "khe" which seems to be similar if not exact to the Lojban "x". A sound recording of "خ" can be found here: http:// easypersian.com/W4/khe_4.mp3 
(Reminds me a bit of Hebrew)
Even if you do already have that confidently figured out, perhaps it will help in confirmation? 

-Termy

On Dec 2, 2006, at 1:17 PM, Ronald Guida wrote:
I am learning to pronounce Lojban "x", which is not an English sound. I think I have figured it out, so I want to share how I figured it out in the hope of helping others. 

First, I took a crash course in phonetics, courtesy of Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_of_articulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manner_of_articulation

Second, I pronounced English "ch" and "sh", as in:

English: "ch ch ch ch-shhhh"
IPA: "tʃ tʃ tʃ tʃʃʃʃʃʃʃ"
X-SAMPA: "tS tS tS tSSSSSSS"
Lojban: "tc tc tc tcccccc"
and noted the difference between a stop and a fricative. I can pronounce "ch" followed immediately by a long "sh" because "sh" is a fricative that uses the same place of articulation as the end* of ch. [*Note: I perceive "ch" as a single sound, even though the IPA represents it as two sounds.]
Third, I attempted to do this with "k" and "X". I can pronounce a train of "k"s and then attempt to make them run together. I can also pronounce a ejective "k" by taking a deep breath and forcing excessive air out with my "k" sound. If I hold the shape of my mouth immediately after the release that creates the "k" sound, then the extra air will produce turbulence and the resulting sound is somewhat like "X". The point of these two exercises is to become aware of the shape of my mouth during the "release" phase of producing "k" and to get an idea of that "X" probably sounds like. By holding this shape, I can then pronounce "k k k kXXXXXX". I can also note that "kXXXXX" sounds somewhat like the sound of a crash cymbal.
Fourth, using a flashlight and a mirror, I can open my mouth wide and look inside to see my soft pallet and my uvula. If I pronounce "k" with my mouth wide open, I can see the back of my tongue lift up, block the soft pallet for a moment, and then release, producing the "k" sound (unvoiced velar stop) upon release. I can also feel the contact between my soft pallet and the back of my tongue. If I pronounce "kXXXXX", I can see and feel the same movements as K, followed by a sound with the back of my tongue lifted up, but not all the way up. I also attempted to pronounce "XXXXXX" (unvoiced velar fricative) without the initial "k". At this point, I am fairly confident that I know what "X" sounds like and that I am pronouncing it correctly.
Fifth, I am trying to pronounce an "X" preceded and/or followed by a vowel. The two problems I am having are (1) sometimes I am pronouncing a "k" or a pause (a silent "k") right before the "X", and (2) sometimes I am pronouncing an "h" instead of an "X". These are coordination problems that can only be eliminated through practice. 

-- Ron