Jorge Llambías wrote:
On 8/10/07, Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:1. There are other kinds of modification besides "type of" 2. The place structure may be the same, but arguably the semantics may be different. Two examples from the book: kosta degji - coat-finger -> sleeve of a coat and any use of degji to metaphorically indicate a peninsula.Are you saying that: le vi kosta cu dukse clani lo ka degji la floridas cu degji le mergu'e are incorrect uses of {degji}? If they are proper uses of {degji}, then {tumla degji} and {kosta degji} both are types of {degji}.
They are. But the *modification* is not "type of". A "kosta degji" is a type of degji, but I would feel it to be a stretch to say that it is a "kosta type of degji". Rather it is a kind of degji having something to do with a kosta.
It is a finger only as a metaphorical stretch. You may be able to fill in a meaningful place for each of the places of degji, but it is a strain to use this as a tanru.More of a strain than using it as a simple selbri?
You mean "brivla" I hope, since a tanru is a simple selbri. Coining brivla is not nearly such a strain because one does not have to worry about the appropriateness of all the places of the modified term.
> If not, then
tanru has nothing to do with it. Metaphors don't need to be tanru and tanru don't need to be metaphors (the conflation of "tanru" with "metaphor" is another case of Lojbanic mixed-up terminology).
tanru is conflated with one kind of metaphor, what we eventually called a "binary metaphor".
lujvo have an implied basis in a source tanru, but are not as strictly tied to the place structure of the source tanru, since jvajvo is less than a rule of the language.
cifnu-degji - baby finger This is a kind of finger. But it has nothing to do with babies. It is using a metaphorical aspect of a baby as the meaning modifier.Which is not really relevant to whether a broda brode has to be a brode.
My use of the hyphen is to indicate that this is a source metaphor for a lujvo. Perhaps I should be saying cifnydegji. I tend to not use short rafsi when talking to beginners (and when I am in a hurry as I was that day, since I was in the last hours before traveling).
lojbab