[lojban-beginners] Re: usefulness

["Jared Angell" <angell.jared@gmail.com>]

My understanding was that my friends did have a hard time reading
ancient Hebrew as much of the grammar is dissimilair.  That is just
what I heard from at least half a dozen people, perhaps it is not much
different than modern American English and Elizabethan English???

Israelis never struck me as being stupid IQ wise so I figured that
they really were quite different.  If I am wrong it is not due to lack
of inquiry into the matter, I assure you.  I really did ask lots of
questions about Hebrew when I was learning it in Israel.  I guess my
friends just didn't have a sufficiently wide frame of reference when
it came to language to inform me...certainly none of them were
linguists.

On 10/24/07, Yoav Nir <yoav.nir@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm too new to lojban to have firm ideas about it, but I do know my Hebrew.
>
> Modern Hebrew is very firmly based on the undead language. Since it was
> undead, I suppose you could call it resurrected. The comparison with Latin
> is apt. Hebrew was used for centuries only for scholarly discourse and
> prayer.
>
> What Ben Yehuda did was not to invent a new language. He only invented many
> words that were missing. I don't think anything about the language became
> more or less conductive to modern thinking and technology, except that words
> were missing for modern things: trains, newspapers, electricity.
>
> The structure of the language is hardly changed, and so Israeli
> schoolchildren can easily read the 2500-year-old text of the bible. It's
> much closer to them than the merely 400-year-old KJV is to modern American
> children.
>
> On 10/24/07, Jared Angell <angell.jared@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well, Eppcott, you are undoubtable contributing in exactly the way
> > that I was describing.
> >
> > I am niave when it comes to linguistics departments, I admit it.  I
> > suppose I was being overly optimistic.
> >
> > On the other hand I HAVE studied Jewish history my entire like and
> > lived in Israel for 7 years.  Modern Hebrew IS NOT the result of what
> > you describe it IS the result of the lifetime efforts of a single
> > linguist and everyone in Isreal knows that.
> >
> > Hebrew was a language in usage comparable to latin over the last
> > several centuries for over 1,000 years.  It did not evolve, it was
> > basically undead (dead, but in studial usage for biblical scholars and
> > rabbis).  Modern Hebrew does not draw greatly from that Hebrew...where
> > it does draw from that Hebrew is in base words solely.  That form of
> > Hebrew was not conducive to modern thinking, technology, and
> > communication.
> >
> > So I hope I have saved your lung.
> >
> > On 10/24/07, Matt Arnold <matt.mattarn@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Jared,
> > >
> > > > I really liked the idea of Lojban but at my present level of
> > > > involvement I see no point in carrying on with it if it is never going
> > > > to be anything more than a code that an extremely low percentage of
> > > > the Internet population uses to play mental games with one another.
> > > > Which is, forgive me, exactly what it is at the moment.
> > >
> > > Why forgive you? We like it that way, and we want it that way. Lojban
> > > is a toy language. http://nemorathwald.com/node/31
> > >
> > > I use it for the same reason that Star Trek fans use Klingon. Maybe
> > > Lojban will change the world, and maybe it won't, but I personally
> > > will leave that up to you; I have no interest in that.
> > >
> > > That having been said, I would like there to be a larger number of
> > > geeks who use Lojban as a secret code. The best hope for creating such
> > > a community of active speakers is in the game I devised:
> > >
> > > http://nemorathwald.com/node/43
> > >
> > > > I feel that if key members of linguistics departments all over
> > > > the world were shown the inherit value of Lojban than classes in it
> > > > could commence within a year and people would begin learning and using
> > > > this language academically.
> > >
> > > Forgive me, but this statement is hilariously naive!
> > >
> > > > If people were in a Lojban community where
> > > > Lojban culture could develop and children grew up speaking Lojban (it
> > > > would be Utopia probably) then translating things and writing things
> > > > in Lojban would be as trivial as it was to translate thing from a
> > > > multiplicity of languages into Modern Hebrew when the state of Israel
> > > > was founded.
> > >
> > > I laughed so hard at this, I nearly coughed up a lung. The creation of
> > > Modern Hebrew was the result of thousands of years of the religious
> > > and ethnic heritage of millions of people. And Utopia? It's never
> > > going to happen, it's fantasy. Fantasy is fun, which is what I like
> > > about Utopia. But taking it seriously only leads to crimes against
> > > humanity.
> > >
> > > > For those of you who have no academic interests but who feel as I do I
> > > > would suggest teaching Lojban to your families or opening up a night
> > > > course in your local area where you teach Lojban after you yourself
> > > > have learned it to a certain degree.
> > >
> > > I've been doing that for years. The largest local Lojban group in the
> > > world meets in my house.
> > >
> > > -Eppcott
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jared
> >
> > "There is no emotion, there is peace;  there is no ignorance, there is
> > knowledge;  there is no passion, there is serenity;  there is no
> > death, there is the Universe"
> >
> > "Work smart when you can and hard if you must"
> >
> > "When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat"
> >
> > "Open Source: The light side of computing.  It's never too late to join"
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


-- 
Jared

"There is no emotion, there is peace;  there is no ignorance, there is
knowledge;  there is no passion, there is serenity;  there is no
death, there is the Universe"

"Work smart when you can and hard if you must"

"When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat"

"Open Source: The light side of computing.  It's never too late to join"