[lojban-beginners] Re: geodesic dome

[Isen hand <isenhand@yahoo.co.uk>]

<< I'm referring to Buckminister Fuellers design...I
was not aware that

there are others.  I have read his books and seen many of these and

all that I am aware of are as I described but maybe there is something

you know that I don't...?>>


 


There are two ways to do the design usually referred to as
type 1 and type 2 but they have other names as well. Type 1 is the design that
BF came up with and type 2 doesn?t have the pentagon shapes. Its also possible to
build such a dome without triangles explicitly. You could, for example , just
use hexagons and pentagons. 




----- Original Message ----
From: Jared Angell <angell.jared@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Thursday, 25 October, 2007 11:18:23 AM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: geodesic dome

"Except that they're not.  Specifically, not just any arrangement of
triangles would not necessarily be geodesic.  The important thing
about the design is that the struts form lines that are straight in
relationship to the curved surface.  "

I'm referring to Buckminister Fuellers design...I was not aware that
there are others.  I have read his books and seen many of these and
all that I am aware of are as I described but maybe there is something
you know that I don't...?

"All natural languages have phonotactic rules; for example, in
English, the consonant cluster "sbl" in the onset of a syllable is
unnatural, as is "nskch" in the coda. Thus (anyone familiar with
Strong Bad?) the word "sblounskched" is rather ridiculous because it
couldn't possibly be natural English. The phonotactic rules choses for
Lojban, however, have an international community in mind, so they are
meant to be neutral to all. Letting Lojban be completely Anglicized
simply because most of its speakers are from the English speaking
world would be less than neutral. You must remember that when you add
words outside of the phonological constraints made for Lojban, you
will do it like an English speaker unless you make a conscious effort
not to do so.
Also, consants in voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters usually
assimilate into either voiced or unvoiced clusters over time or as
part of spoken language. (For example, "sblounskched" would probably
be pronounced with a /p/ instead of /b/ by anyone not stressing to
pronounce it the way it is spelled.) Therefore, the rule may prevent
differences from appearing between spoken and written Lojban, which
makes it easier to learn. "

Okay, so this was a bad example, but the fundamental question remained.

"Someone who values the fact that Lojban is different than natural
languages, such as yourself, would be likely to resist evolutionary
changes that make it more like natural languages.

Since there would be few people learning Lojban if they did not value
 at
least *some* of the differences from other languages, the resistance
against naturalizing the language is extremely strong, except where the
inherent (and perhaps subconscious) nature of language is capable of
overwhelming our desires."

*Applause* Now this is an excellent, reasoned ,and well thought out
answer.  Perhaps a bit personal but, hey, I'm a Leo so I don't mind.


Ofcourse everyone dodged the point I was making in their own clever
waysbut I've learned a great deal from everyones answers...When Lojban
does start evolving on it's own I wonder what the reaction will be
from it's original creators...As for me personally, like Bob said, I
DO value it's artificialness because I beleive it makes the language
far more perfect than any evolved language.

On 10/25/07, Isen hand <isenhand@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I don't see lojban as ever replacing natural languages. Its
> value lie, I think, in becoming an international second language. As
 such, I
> would
> see natural evolution of the language as a disadvantage.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>
> To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
> Sent: Thursday, 25 October, 2007 7:47:44 AM
> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: geodesic dome
>
> Jared Angell wrote:
> > "The v and s aren't allowed together; they're a voiced-unvoiced
> > consonant pair. They must either be separated with a  y, or a
> > different rafsi be selected."
> >
> > If Lojban is being allowed to evolve like a natural language than
 who
>  cares?
>
> Someone who values the fact that Lojban is different than natural
> languages, such as yourself, would be likely to resist evolutionary
> changes that make it more like natural languages.
>
> Since there would be few people learning Lojban if they did not value
>  at
> least *some* of the differences from other languages, the resistance
> against naturalizing the language is extremely strong, except where
 the
>
> inherent (and perhaps subconscious) nature of language is capable of
> overwhelming our desires.
>
> lojbab
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________________________________
> Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html
>
>
>
>


-- 
Jared

"There is no emotion, there is peace;  there is no ignorance, there is
knowledge;  there is no passion, there is serenity;  there is no
death, there is the Universe"

"Work smart when you can and hard if you must"

"When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat"

"Open Source: The light side of computing.  It's never too late to
 join"








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