[lojban-beginners] using the word lists (was "Re: .i mi prami la lojban. .ui")

[mungojelly@ixkey.info]

Quoting zimmah <zimmah@gmail.com>:

> i'm also interested in lojban however i don't really know where i can learn
> the words, i have printed out some grammar stuff which i readed and kinda
> understand, but i need to find a way to teach at least the most important
> words.


The main lists I use are the gismu list at

http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu.txt

and the cmavo list at

http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/cmavo_selmaho_order.txt


In the following discussion, C = a consonant and V = a vowel.

Whenever you see a word in Lojban, it's usually going to be one of  
three things: A cmavo, which will stand alone in a form like CVV or  
CV'V, like "bau" or "se'o", a gismu which will be either CVCCV (like  
"gismu") or CCVCV (like "bridi"), or a lujvo, which looks like two or  
more parts together, each part shaped like CCV, CVV, CV'V, or CVC (but  
a CVC part will never end the word).

So part of the beauty of Lojban is that you can unambiguously know  
what category an unfamiliar word is, and if it's a compound word you  
can know unambiguously how to break it down and what the parts are.   
So if I encounter a gismu I don't know, I still know immediately that  
it's a gismu because it looks like CVCCV or CCVCV, and I can look it  
up on the gismu list.

I find that if I search the list in my webbrowser for a gismu preceded  
& followed by a space, it usually brings me right to the entry.  So  
that's a little trick.  Usually that works for looking up the rafsi in  
a lujvo, too.  (The rafsi are the parts of a lujvo.)

If you're just starting I wouldn't even bother trying to look up lujvo  
at first.  There's a lot of Lojban out there written mostly with gismu  
and as a beginner you might want to focus mostly on that.  Using rafsi  
to make lujvo is like an advanced shorthand-- it uses the same gismu,  
but you have to know a lot more names for all of them & the rules of  
combination.  So if you just learn to work with gismu at first, you'll  
be in good shape to learn their rafsi later.

Just take simple texts & look up the gismu to get the idea of what  
they're talking about, then look up the cmavo to try to understand how  
it's structured.  Like if I say:

.i mi ba'anai klama le xamgu zarci mu'i lo nu mi terve'u le nanba

You can start by looking up the gismu and you'll have:

I something go to the good store something to I something the bread.

Which is already pretty much the idea.  Add in the meaning of the  
cmavo "ba'anai" and "mu'i":

I remember going to the store with the motive of I something the bread.

And then finally if you're still curious what the sentence says :)  
then try to bother with the lujvo, in this case ter-ve'u, which stands  
for "te vecnu," buyer x1 is sold product x2 (by seller x3 etc).

Don't just look at the keywords when you look up gismu.  Don't look at  
the keywords at all.  What's important is the places of the gismu, the  
structure.  For instance if you just know that vecnu is about  
"selling" or "vending" you still have no idea who the "te vecnu" is  
(it's who the thing is sold to).

A lot of the time only one place of a gismu is being used, often a  
place other than the first place or the keyworded place.  For  
instance, if you see the words "lo ve tivni", that means a television  
set.  You don't even need to know what the other three places of tivni  
are to use that aspect of it.  So don't just think of gismu as  
"meaning" one thing in English-- usually they have three or four  
different meanings that are squished together & get brought out one by  
one by the grammar.

Hope that helps. :)

<3,
brett